Branimir's Open Letter to Games Workshop

[Immeril]

yes, you're right, the idea of including women in a group of genetically enhanced soldiers who are augmented and mutated to the point where they're no longer considered human and already had a new iteration become canon in a universe where "canon" is a vague notion that can be changed on a whim would be lore breaking and just feel like forced diversity

like, seriously, I want you to think of what gaming was like when 40k was new and they came up with the idea that only men can become space marines. I want you to think of why they made that statement and why now they might do away with that notion. like sheesh, they haven't even said anything of that sort to my knowledge, but the fact that this is a sacred cow of the highest order for some fans certainly reveals priorities.

Or you could look at it positively. Horus Heresy novel 28 - Scars:

"Malcador smiled. 'You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.' "

If there had been female primarchs and marines, perhaps there would never have been a heresy.

 

[Umbran]

People like that make the hobby look bad...

True. But it isn't limited to an appearance of badness, it is an actuality of badness. They make the hobby community toxic.

 

[Neonchameleon]

"We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray through miniatures, art and storytelling so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to."

For example does that mean female space marines some point down the line? Because that turns on the head a whole host of lore about gene-seeds and the like, which someone might have a problem with, while still not being opposed to more female characters being represented in general.

There's surprisingly little actual lore on the subject. And most of the lore there was went up in smoke three years ago with Belisarius Cawl and the Primaris Marines. Frankly anyone who can put up with Primaris Marines but leaves because some marines are girls shows what their priority is - and it isn't lore.

That said I'm not expecting female space marines - much more likely is a cohort of Primaris-level augmented supersoldiers within the Adeptus Sororitas.

 

[Panda-s1]

Or you could look at it positively. Horus Heresy novel 28 - Scars:

"Malcador smiled. 'You brothers - such a nest of rivalries. I warned him to make you sisters, that it would make things more civilised. He thought I was joking. I wasn't.' "

If there had been female primarchs and marines, perhaps there would never have been a heresy.

oookay that's still a blanket statement about the nature of women. if they do end up adding female space marines, given how augmented they are I fully expect them to have the same abilities and stats as their male counterparts.

 

[Bagpuss]

If there had been female primarchs and marines, perhaps there would never have been a heresy.

And where's the fun in that?

 

[Bagpuss]

oookay that's still a blanket statement about the nature of women. if they do end up adding female space marines, given how augmented they are I fully expect them to have the same abilities and stats as their male counterparts.

One would hope/expect they would be just as indoctrinated as well.

 

[Fenris-77]

So I guess he won't be missed, eh? I think that's where we're at. I've been a GW gamer for a loong time and the vaguely 'angry incel' nature of a portion of the fanbase always rubbed my rhubarb the wrong way. Anything outside the white male adolescent power fantasy gets strenuously objected to, usually based on some silliness about the 'lore'. Plus the added I'm not racist/misogynist/transphobic/etc I'm only saying that because in the lore blah blah ignorant crap blah... It's depressing how often 'the lore' gets used as cover for intolerance.

Anyway, I thought GWs statement was aces.

 

[Immeril]

I actually looked through the article and read "The open letter was recently publicly published to the /r/KotakuInAction subreddit." so I mean he knows his audience at least.

Since I started out defending Branimir, I have to admit that, with the letter originally being posted in that specific subreddit, I see its content in a different light now.

 

[Dausuul]

I don't disagree with anything of that GW's statement. But as I have said: some people actively try to find social injustice in everything, and call those who oppose them bigoted.

"Some people" say a lot of things. Anything you can think of, there is "some person" out there who says it and believes it.

But Branimir's post wasn't about what "some people" might have said. It was about a specific statement by Games Workshop.

 

[MGibster]

Anything outside the white male adolescent power fantasy gets strenuously objected to, usually based on some silliness about the 'lore'. Plus the added I'm not racist/misogynist/transphobic/etc I'm only saying that because in the lore blah blah ignorant crap blah... It's depressing how often 'the lore' gets used as cover for intolerance.

I'm ambivalent when it comes to female Space Marines. I'm fine with them not existing but if they suddenly appeared tomorrow the odds of me purchasing some are pretty close to 100%. Though I'd say I'm leaning closer to wanting female Space Marines these days simply to make some heads explode with apoplectic fury.
As far as lore goes, I sometimes think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. If you're unfamiliar with Buffy (ha ha, as if people on a geek site might be unfamiliar with Buffy), it's established that only women can be slayers and in the sixth or seventh season we find out why. I like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I've run campaigns using the Eden Studios licensed game, and of course the only characters permitted to be Slayers were women. If they continued the Buffy story and suddenly men could be Slayers I wouldn't be too happy about it though I wouldn't wail, tear out my hair, and gnash my teeth because of it. For me, a lot of the arguments for GW to allow female Space Marines would be applicable to adding male Slayers for Buffy.

I'm not a big fan of lore change for the same of change. On the flip side, the lore in Warhammer only exists to support the selling of models. And I'm not going to get too attached to lore designed to sell me plastic models.