D&D 5E Suggestion spell, AKA: the importance of session zero(ish) discussions with your DM

[ccs]

Session Zero is always a good idea. But it's never going to cover every eventuality.

Yeah, if I ran a session zero & covered everything every post around here recommends? I'd still be in session zero.

 

[ccs]

I agree. The spell would make the cultist believe the leader would want the players to be allowed to pass. The plot point could still have been saved less clumsily and without completely penalising the players by having another cultist realise what had happened and stab the suggested cultist in the back.

"These aren't the droids you are looking for".

You think Vader gave those troopers a medal when they reported in?

I imagine that shortly after Luke drove off the squads conversation went something like this:
"Sgt, why'd you let those two go without seeing their IDs?"
"Yeah boss, that one droid even had blue trim. Aren't we looking for a droid with blue trim?"
(Sgt realizing what's going to happen when they get back to the Star Destroyer) "Oh Sh***!"

And inspires a starting point for a future SW game.
Character creation = Everyone roll up a Storm Trooper. You're all part of the same squad.
Play begins shortly after you realize that you've allowed Luke & Obi-Wan to drive through your check point.
What do you do?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I imagine that shortly after Luke drove off the squads conversation went something like this:
"Sgt, why'd you let those two go without seeing their IDs?"
"Yeah boss, that one droid even had blue trim. Aren't we looking for a droid with blue trim?"
(Sgt realizing what's going to happen when they get back to the Star Destroyer) "Oh Sh***!"

And inspires a starting point for a future SW game.
Character creation = Everyone roll up a Storm Trooper. You're all part of the same squad.
Play begins shortly after you realize that you've allowed Luke & Obi-Wan to drive through your check point.
What do you do?

Go AWOL join the Rebellion, of course.

 

[Seramus]

The spell is missing a critical feature. It should say "if they were your friend" and they would clear up an enormous amount

 

[Mistwell]

Session zero would not have helped with this one. Any DM who allows a roll, and imposes disadvantage to adjust for the difficulty, and you still succeed on the roll but after the fact the DM declares it was an impossible task which should have had no roll to begin with...was not going to clarify something like that in a session zero.

It was a bad call. The leader should have let you pass, and then decided if the remaining followers would have stopped you and caused a conflict between the leader and followers, or they would have pursued you right after you passed, or whatever. But they failed their save on a legit save roll the DM called for, and I really don't think a session zero could have addressed the DM making decisions like that on the fly.

DMs make mistakes of course. If I made that kind of mistake, I would have made you whole. You'd have your spell slot back, and the option to swap your spell known to something else if you felt like it was too uncertain a spell to have. I'd probably even give you inspiration.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

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[iserith]

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Good point.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think the DM's ruling was correct. Your character didn't know, and had no way of knowing, that allowing you to get away was an explicitly deadly action for the cultist. However, that doesn't change the fact that that was an unreasonable request. That's just how reality works. That is to say, this was unfair in the same way that real life is unfair. That's a feature, not a bug! Sometimes you get tripped up by things you don't know.

You had no way to know that sword was cursed. You had no way to know that floor was an illusion. You had no way to know the sheriff was a Doppelganger. You had no way to know that the cultists were instructed to return with the treasure or face execution.

So why allow the save in the first place?

Most likely just because the DM didn't think beyond, "a spell was cast that grants a save; let's roll the save before thinking beyond that." However, if you think deeper, it was actually most correct to do it that way! Since the casting character has no idea that their suggestion was unreasonable or why, telling the PC that the NPC doesn't need to roll is giving out metagame information. It's better to just roll.

Indeed, this is a perfect example of when the DM should be rolling behind a screen. Then the DM can say, "The spell doesn't appear to have had any effect." It doesn't matter why there was no effect. The PC doesn't get to know that. They might be immune to charm, or they might be illusory creatures, or they might not understand the language the PC spoke, or they might not have been able to hear the PCs, or they might've made their save, or it might be unreasonable, etc. There are lots of ways for the spell to do nothing. Why should the DM tell the PCs which one it was?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I had one spell left, so I cast suggestion on him to tell his squad to step aside and let us pass unaccosted.

That is no reasonable request. It is an order without any reason given.
I would expect more from a player, but I would make it clear at the time of casting.
A resonable request might be: we have beaten the dragon who guarded the treasure... so step aside and we will leave you and your subordinates unharmed.

Only problem: the rest of the squad might see you casting a spell if you didn't cast it with subtle metamagic.

That might also work with a very good intimidation check, but with the threat of death over the cultist's head, a sughestion spell should be the easier way.

 

[DND_Reborn]

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Thanks. This gave me a reminder to Unwatch this thread.