D&D General What if the Blood War ended? (Possible Outcomes Discussion)

[squibbles]

This isn't really an answer to the question you're asking, but I got a pretty strong impression from the fluff in MToF that the devils are losing--almost to a point that the Blood War is a story of desperation for them:

(from MToF)
Avernus—"Zariel rules over the ruin that Avernus has become. Once it was a bustling realm filled with cities, trade outposts, and other features, but recent activity in the Blood War has reduced it to a blasted wasteland."

Minauros—"The layer of Minauros teeters on the edge of ruin. The realm is a great swamp, interspersed with cities and fortresses that are in constant need of repair, upkeep, and replacement. Time and again, structures built on this layer are left untended and are eventually drawn into the bottomless muck of the swamp. Mammon refuses to spend any more coin than necessary to keep the soul marketplace in the Sinking City functioning."

Maladomini—"Maladomini was wracked with fighting as the other Lords of the Nine took to the field against the conspirator. The resulting devastation left much of the layer in ruins"

Stygia—"Stygia has become a war-wracked realm. Any devils bound to either of the archdevils that aren't needed for service in the Blood War engage in constant skirmishes across the ice, Every other layer of the Nine Hells has a function related to warfare, industry, administration, or commerce, but Stygia is an expanse of untamed, unimproved territory."

Cania—"Mephistopheles and his devotees prefer to conduct their studies in a wasteland where they can unleash gouts of arcane energy without destroying anything important. Experiments involving new spells, new magic items, and other innovations for the infernal arsenal regularly cause localized cataclysms in this place."

Nessus—"By design, the place is devoid of activity"

That's six out of nine layers which have been destroyed by armed conflict or neglect, or are basically empty of productive enterprise, with a clear implication that things in Baator used to be better but that the plane's hopeless leadership shows no sign of turning things around.

I don't see them winning.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

If the Blood War to conceivably end, I don't think it actually would in any of the ways you're describing; the Blood War is explicitly designed so no force can win outright in conflict. The Devils are too organized to win; the Demons too numerous, and if any side gets an advantage, the Ultroloths or Celestials tip the scales to maintain balance.

That said, the only conceivable way I can see either side "winning" is by duplicity; meaning, it gains an advantage by seizing a completely different plane. Orcus has done this himself by replacing the Primus in Mechanus, and Vecna briefly achieved stalemate control of Sigil, and nearly gained complete control of the Multiverse.

This is the only way I could see a god like Asmodeus, or a demon god like Tharizdun, winning the Blood War; through unconventional and unprecedented means.

The biggest coup of all would be to infiltrate the Upper Planes, and use their forces to tilt the balance. It is well established that celestials are capable of corruption, and being manipulated.

Here's an idea;

1. Asmodeus/Tharizdun (these are the only two with the intelligence, will and power to control/destroy the multiverse on the Lawful/Chaotic sides) manipulate a powerful celestial, perhaps one of the Tome Archons (Raziel comes to mind) into thinking that the chaotic side of the Beastlands must be brought to heel, as it is a source of corruption among mortals.

2. Raziel leads an invasion across the upper planes; furious by this transgressions, the force of the Beastlands retaliate. This lapse of war across the upper planes weakens the defenses of Mount Celestia and other outer planes, allowing fiendish spies more access than they otherwise would attain.

3. Fiends perform a coup on the leadership of one of the upper planes, with celestial allies; arguing that the imposition of law/chaos is more important than morals.

4. An alliance between Mount Celestia/Baator is formed, or alternatively Arborea and Limbo (the Abyss seems like to big a jump for anyone really). After all, the devils were once fallen angels; perhaps the final destruction of demons will cleanse their souls.

5. The final war for the multiverse begins, with Asmodeus/Tharizdun pulling the strings to kill the gods and achieve the final control destruction of everything that exists.

Raziel

 

[dave2008]

If the Blood War to conceivably end, I don't think it actually would in any of the ways you're describing; the Blood War is explicitly designed so no force can win outright in conflict. The Devils are too organized to win; the Demons too numerous, and if any side gets an advantage, the Ultroloths or Celestials tip the scales to maintain balance.

That said, the only conceivable way I can see either side "winning" is by duplicity; meaning, it gains an advantage by seizing a completely different plane. Orcus has done this himself by replacing the Primus in Mechanus, and Vecna briefly achieved stalemate control of Sigil, and nearly gained complete control of the Multiverse.

This is the only way I could see a god like Asmodeus, or a demon god like Tharizdun, winning the Blood War; through unconventional and unprecedented means.

The biggest coup of all would be to infiltrate the Upper Planes, and use their forces to tilt the balance. It is well established that celestials are capable of corruption, and being manipulated.

Here's an idea;

1. Asmodeus/Tharizdun (these are the only two with the intelligence, will and power to control/destroy the multiverse on the Lawful/Chaotic sides) manipulate a powerful celestial, perhaps one of the Tome Archons (Raziel comes to mind) into thinking that the chaotic side of the Beastlands must be brought to heel, as it is a source of corruption among mortals.

2. Raziel leads an invasion across the upper planes; furious by this transgressions, the force of the Beastlands retaliate. This lapse of war across the upper planes weakens the defenses of Mount Celestia and other outer planes, allowing fiendish spies more access than they otherwise would attain.

3. Fiends perform a coup on the leadership of one of the upper planes, with celestial allies; arguing that the imposition of law/chaos is more important than morals.

4. An alliance between Mount Celestia/Baator is formed, or alternatively Arborea and Limbo (the Abyss seems like to big a jump for anyone really). After all, the devils were once fallen angels; perhaps the final destruction of demons will cleanse their souls.

5. The final war for the multiverse begins, with Asmodeus/Tharizdun pulling the strings to kill the gods and achieve the final control destruction of everything that exists.

Raziel
View attachment 123972

Or the opposite and the upper planes use the distraction of the blood war to wipe out the demons and the devils.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Or the opposite and the upper planes use the distraction of the blood war to wipe out the demons and the devils.

Also possible, though it's pretty well-established that most celestials think that actually defeating all evil is impossible. So you'd have to have them secretly preparing a "master plan" to defeat evil (again through manipulation, as outright force will never work).

 

[dave2008]

Also possible, though it's pretty well-established that most celestials think that actually defeating all evil is impossible. So you'd have to have them secretly preparing a "master plan" to defeat evil (again through manipulation, as outright force will never work).

Defeating demons and devils is not the same things as defeating all evil.

 

[R_J_K75]

Well, first, I'd say that far more worlds in the material plane would be effected than just Toril, but I'm used to being forced to care about Faerun at this point and to focus on just that point would be kind of petty.

Isnt that kind of the whole point of the Blood War is that it touches all ( or most) planes in some way shape or form, limiting it to just the planes and Toril kind of defeats the purpose?

I always wanted the Yuggoloth to win personally.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Planescape stated that if the Blood War ended with there being peace between the sides with the Yugoloths in charge, it would be Armageddon with a unified Fiendish army attacking the Upper Planes. The already unified Celestial armies wouldn't stand a chance against the now unified Fiendish armies that outnumber them.

 

[cbwjm]

Planescape stated that if the Blood War ended with there being peace between the sides with the Yugoloths in charge, it would be Armageddon with a unified Fiendish army attacking the Upper Planes. The already unified Celestial armies wouldn't stand a chance against the now unified Fiendish armies that outnumber them.

I think a lot of neutral forces would side with the celestials in order to maintain the balance, leading to a new blood war between the upper/neutral planes and the lower planes

 

[Eltab]

Option #2 ends with you close to Dark Sun.

 

[SkidAce]

Related point: I now want to run a game with such a scenario having played out and the material plane being the cut off from the others with no one sure who won the blood war or what happened, only that it ended. Rumors that one day the protection provided by the ancient city located in the center of the world will one day fail and said evils shall return.

But nobody really believes all that, it's just bedtime tales meant to frighten children! Just like no one really believes that said city could've ever once flown through the sky, crashed into the ground one day, or that it "came from another dimension" as some versions of the legend say. I mean really, how could any city be big enough to have 1000 doors? And "Sigil"? Such a silly name!

Fascinating idea, well described!