D&D 5E Monks Suck

[Asisreo]

I think the issue here was that short rests are more rare if you don't have a lot of encounters per day, which is pretty common in my experience. If you have one big fight prior to long rest, than you have the same recharge as the long rest people, which means your power is reduced relatively.

Relatively to who? Not the enemy, surely. A boost to a class is not a nerf to another.

Short rests can be used any time out-of-combat as well. It effectively let's you have Astral Projection and the works as an at-will ability since you can do it twice and then just take an hour-long break.

And I think this in-lies the problem as well that the monk must only use their abilities for combat, and it's what makes the Elemonk so much more effective in these scenarios.


A 4-elemonk has access to Fly or gaseous form roughly whenever they need it, and they can stack on top of their invisibility and damage resistances.

The 4-elemonk can use Wall of Stone to create a permanent structure, so the party can rest, without any real costs.

The 4-elemonk can use Gust of Wind at essentially no cost.

This is only 3-4 of the elemonk's abilities that they can do all within 1 hour. Then, they can do it all over again the next hour.


But even other subclasses have this usefulness. Shadow monks can cast Darkness, Silence, PwT, and darkvision 10 times before needing an hour.

Heck, the base chassis can keep using Step of the Wind to jump great distances for dirt cheap.

There isn't even the need to stop an adventure. While some of the other party members are doing whatever they want to do that isn't combat like search the room for treasure, you can take the time to begin your short rest.

It's all about how you use your abilities that make or break a class. Casters are meaningless if the player only ever casts cantrips, yes even warlocks.

 

[Stoutstien]

The only real issue with the monk is a crappy capstone but not like they are alone there.

 

[CubicsRube]

the final analysis is all that matter: is it fun or not? Too many have fun with monks for them to be dismissed.

I am biased due to flavor issues but in the end, that is just a taste thing.

I play against type and suboptimal for fun. I suppose monk players who have fun aren’t doing anything different in that respect.

I did get tempted to play a half orc strength orc once after one level of barbarian. Never did it but a wild hulk-like pc seemed like a fun diversion.

Fun is often the forgotten factor.

I'm not terribly sold on the monk has to equal asian factor either, I'd rather it be reflavoured as a "pugilist" of some sort. That's why my monk is a Calmishani desert werling dervish style shaman. Granted powers by the elemental Djinni, and has travelled to the Sword Coast.

 

[see]

3) Caster has too many HP (or other defences) for this to work.

This is often the case in 5E, due to HP inflation. A lot of NPC casters are basically as tough as the front line. A solo Monk is unlikely to be able to take them down, and thanks to 5E's OA rules, can't even stop them casting freely (I guess he makes ranged attack roll spells have disadvantage? like a familiar would?)

Er, hit points? Opportunity attacks? Why are you talking about those irrelevancies?

The way the monk "takes out" a caster is locking them down with Stunning Strike, so they can't take actions or reactions, and thus can't cast.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Fun is often the forgotten factor.

I'm not terribly sold on the monk has to equal asian factor either, I'd rather it be reflavoured as a "pugilist" of some sort. That's why my monk is a Calmishani desert werling dervish style shaman. Granted powers by the elemental Djinni, and has travelled to the Sword Coast.

I always thought of Friar Tuck as more of the monk type.

 

[Asisreo]

Er, hit points? Opportunity attacks? Why are you talking about those irrelevancies?

The way the monk "takes out" a caster is locking them down with Stunning Strike, so they can't take actions or reactions, and thus can't cast.

Don't forget it forces 2 concentration saves. If a monk uses 5 Ki points to Flurry-Stunning, they force 8 concentration checks. 4 at a DC 10 and 4 at a DC 18. Basically, whatever the enemy is concentrating on is going down unless they have a very high Con Save.

 

[Seramus]

I will give Treantmonk full props for being a badass at 3.5, but I've found his material for 5E to be lacking. Maybe a notch above most YouTube D&D posters, but his impressive builds mostly come from other people.

I wish him the best in life. I really do. But I don't think of him to 5E what he was to 3.5. Also, the audio quality makes me a sad panda.

 

[Mistwell]

As someone playing a monk of the four elements from 5th to (currently 15th) level, I have to say that when people start breaking out the numbers as a justification on whether a class is good or not seem to forget this is a game, and the only measure is FUN.

To be fair, Treantmonk spends time on this topic and agrees with you. If you're having fun with the monk, that's awesome! If the concept speaks to you, that's great.

And he's speaking numbers and averages, and that means your particular monk might not be the average for those numbers even. Heck, if you roll for stats and rolled well, it changes a lot of his numbers too.

 

[Mistwell]

I will give Treantmonk full props for being a badass at 3.5, but I've found his material for 5E to be lacking. Maybe a notch above most YouTube D&D posters, but his impressive builds mostly come from other people.

I wish him the best in life. I really do. But I don't think of him to 5E what he was to 3.5. Also, the audio quality makes me a sad panda.

Audio quality for this particular video had issues, but in general his videos don't have an audio issue and he uses a professional mic with a pop filter. For whatever reason, this one he had problems but it's rather rare he'd have such issues. I bet in fact he re-uploads this one with better audio later.

 

[Asisreo]

To be fair, Treantmonk spends time on this topic and agrees with you. If you're having fun with the monk, that's awesome! If the concept speaks to you, that's great.

And he's speaking numbers and averages, and that means your particular monk might not be the average for those numbers even. Heck, if you roll for stats and rolled well, it changes a lot of his numbers too.

I'm going to be honest, I suspect players that have trouble playing monks are because they just don't know how to use them to their fullest potential. It's true for all "problematic" classes since people almost always compare their playstyle to a playstyle completely different than the relevant style.