ZEITGEIST Questions about the Axis Island Ritual-spoilers for end of Zeitgeist

[Andrew Moreton]

I have been asked the following questions which I had largely not thought about and I wondered about other peoples opinions. I am thinking about it myself and trying to work out something that leaves difficult choices about planes but gives maximum fun

I've been reviewing this in regard to the planes we have access to in the Gyre and have a few questions. Manuel has knowledge planes +30 and an Int of 24 currently, and will happily co-author with "the Lightning Weasel" as the most cited researcher of the last year or so.

Things I think we know:
As far as we know we need to fill each planetary position with the minimum of 1 plane/icon (Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Life, Death, Time & Space).
There is the possibility to create a moon for a planet by using 2 planes / icons stacked in the same position.
We may be able to have multiple planets with moons, but this makes it more difficult.
Moons have a weaker effect than the main planet

Things I would like to know:

Can we make multiple icons of the same plane, so we have spares.
Can we install more than 1 moon in planet slot? Eg. 2 Moons of Life. Do we know the effect of this?
Planes / Icons can exist in multiple positions. eg Av as Death & Life. Therefore:

Can we use the same plane in more than one slot as a planet if we have multiple icons? Eg. Av installed in both Death & Life? Do we know the effects of this?
Can we use the same plane in more than one slot as a planet and a moon if we have multiple icons? Eg. Av as Life, Nem as Death with Av as Moon. Do we know the effects of this?
Can we use the same plane as more than 1 moon if we have multiple icons? Eg. Mojang as Life with Av as Moon, Nem as Death with Av as Moon. Do we know the effects of this?
Can we use the same plane as a moon of itself if we have multiple icons?. Eg, Av as Life with Av as Moon. Do we know the effects of this?

 

[RangerWickett]

Wow, I sort of love the mindbending idea of splitting Av in two. I mean, I'd probably have it cause the orbits of the system to bend over themselves like a mobius strip or like the city of Sigil from planescape, making things very freaky. Trying to have something simultaneously orbit the Earth and have the orbit that Saturn has might create an earth-centric system, or even an earth-sun binary system where some planets orbit the shared center of gravity, and some do figure-8s between the two bodies.

I imagine that yes, the PCs have high skill modifiers, but if you asked the preeminent expert on orbital mechanics to devise a system where one object can be its own moon, they would either mess up and fail, or end up creating something non-chronolinear, and we all know time travel is nothing but trouble.

 

[hirou]

to devise a system where one object can be its own moon

I love this. Totally stealing the concept, probably not for ZG though. One way I can imagine this is if the moon represents the past of the planet, either recent or more distant. If someone travels there, he would see half-transparent images of people long dead going along their daily life. There is a ton of possibilities there: moon-life can represent not the perfect recreation of the past, but the history that never have been, alternate timelines; the gap between the planet time and moon time can shift from day to day or from year to year, and sudden appearance of a thousand year old epic battle on the surface of the moon can be a bad omen; tides being not a physical phenomenon but a cultural one, like current fashion being affected by the one on the moon (with ensuing slightly circular route of development) etc etc.

Re: original question, honestly, your practical experiments with fabric of planar astrology go beyond the wildest ideas of OB. Nicodemus would be proud. IMHO if the players have very specific idea of the future they want to create which thematically fits the combinations you listed - go with it, with Sacrament of Apotheosis applied in the perfect moment you can have just enough individual almost-divine power to smooth out the folds. But it should be impossible to 100% predict the exact effect that a particular combination would result in, both from a combinatorial perspective and a narrative one.

 

[Andrew Moreton]

These are the questions of one of the players. I had not thought of most of these, and I am interested in opinions as I decide on the answers to them.
I don't think I am going to allow the same Plane to be used in different places and definetly not as orbiting itself , as you say it would be an interesting concept or if I do allow it I will tell the players it is an 'Interesting and Experimental concept' and I suspect the other 3 players will persuade Manuel they should not take risks like that.
I will probably let them try more than one moon of a planet but I am going to come up with some sort of skillchecks which escalate the more complicated a solar system you are trying for . I also will not let them be certain about any arrangement of planets outcome until after they have done it, but I will let them know generally what to expect

 

[Andrew Moreton]

Science Nerd player (nearly as bad as me)


I guess it is down to how the ancient device functions? Is it imposing planetary correspondences to some existing physical planets to modify how reality works? Is it modifying reality and the planets are a visual side-effect? Is it locked to 8 planet slots + the world its on and a sun? Can it do other geometry?

I was assuming that each planet was an expression of the connected plane through the device. I assumed this as it fits the planet / plane bits being smaller in the gyre, planes being possibly manifestable as moons as well as planets implying they are not of fixed geometry, and the planets being manifested as different aspects of the plane when in different positions. I should have confirmed this by seeing if Av had different geography when it was Life and when it was Death.

However these are only assumptions and assuming you can only have one planet and then bending geometryto fit it into the sky is equally valid (and possibly more fun). So we may be able to get a mobius strip, Klein bottle, torus, orbital, ringworld, dyson sphere or other weird "planet" configurations.

For example If we do have single objects with pseudo-orbital mechanics there are some different possible options for how this affects the planes.

In the rela world 2 of saturn's moons Janus & Epimetheus swap orbits every 4 years in a stable fashion

This could be expressed as 1 plane in 2 planet positions as I talked about or or as 2 planets with the same plane aspects swapping primary and secondary position in a cycle.

So if we happened to be insane we could possibly build a configuration as follows:

Death: Bathory (Water & Death) Vampire Nuns
Water: Hunlow (Water & Death) Pirates

Which swapped every X orbits

Possibly resulting in a world where pirates went into monastic seclusion every x years

We might also be able to do Kempler Rosette, or other werid n-body orbit configurations Although we might need to make sure all the planets mass the same for that,

This is my favorite, as I reckon it would provide planetary warding bonuses. Although it would make Westeros weather look normal and rational.