Level Up (A5E) Do you want more monster complexity?

A crunchier skill system combined with re-designed approach to "monsters", can, therefore, create more tactical options towards encounter resolution beyond "different ways to kill monsters".

I've seen lots of people on this website who say the skill system is broken, or needs to be added too, etc. I think it was designed to be minimal and I personally don't find it lacking other than the fact that the DC system is a little too arbitary and I have a tough time assigning DC's.

Do people think the problem is the players choice in skills and their ability to increase their modifiers as they advance in level?
 

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I've seen lots of people on this website who say the skill system is broken, or needs to be added too, etc. I think it was designed to be minimal and I personally don't find it lacking other than the fact that the DC system is a little too arbitary and I have a tough time assigning DC's.

Do people think the problem is the players choice in skills and their ability to increase their modifiers as they advance in level?

skills are not broken in 5e, I mean you still have the notion that certain skills (perception) are better then others but that’s nothing new.

its more the system is bland. Your Skills rarely progress or change as you gain levels, the modifier you have at level 1 to all your skills is close to the modifier you’ll have at 10th, and you won’t have any new skills.

I think that’s the bigger complaint
 


Your Skills rarely progress or change as you gain levels, the modifier you have at level 1 to all your skills is close to the modifier you’ll have at 10th, and you won’t have any new skills.

I think its a fine line to succeeding or failing most skill checks if the DM constantly call for skill checks. I tend have players automatically pass most but only call for checks when its critical. In a social type setting roleplaying always trumps skill checks but if a player is vague or abstract in describing their action Ill make them roll one.
 


I think its a fine line to succeeding or failing most skill checks if the DM constantly call for skill checks. I tend have players automatically pass most but only call for checks when its critical. In a social type setting roleplaying always trumps skill checks but if a player is vague or abstract in describing their action Ill make them roll one.

I'm not sure what this has to do with monster mechanics, but I agree with your comment.

One thing I learned from the (clunky) 4e skill challenge rules. If you ask for too many dice rolls, you guarantee failure. The GM should be aware of the right number of checks that should be required for skill-based challenges. And especially for scenes that are narratively freeform - like the PCs pulling off a heist, say - the GM shouldn't require a check for every task, but rather have maybe 7 checks that represent broad narratively thematic efforts (e.g., scout the area, get everyone good disguises, distract the VIP, sneak the rest of the team in, overcome the magical security, sneak out, lay a false set of breadcrumbs so the villain doesn't know it was you). And failed checks should lead to complications that can be overcome, rather than a totally failed heist.

I suppose there could likewise be guidelines for combat skill challenges, with examples to encourage the GM to include them in scenes. Like, if you throw a slightly too-powerful foe at the party, you could include some element in the area that makes defeating that enemy easier, but which requires some skill checks. There'd be guidelines for how many checks, what DC, and what sort of benefit it should earn the party.

For a simple example, you might fight a giant fireball- spitting newt that climbs up stone spires, letting it act like artillery. But a PC could shove a spire and cause it to tip over, dealing falling damage to (and possibly pinning) the newt.

For a complex example, maybe your low level party with no magic weapons faces a ghost in an alchemist laboratory, and an Arcana check determines that there's the right reagants here to create a burst of positive energy that will make the ghost lose its damage resistance. But to get the reagants you need a Perception check to spot them among the shelves, an Athletics check to retrieve them from a high shelf, and then a Religion check to calibrate the right mix to affect this particular sort of ghost.
 


Do you have some recommendations?

Admittedly, I only have looked at the preview for this, as I'm currently unemployed and TRYING not to spend money....


This one gives a list of talents that every monster can add, and says how many you can add w/o increasing the CR.

The two monster manual expanded books look good, but aren't about a toolset so much, as adding back in variant versions.

I'd be remiss not to mention my unusual living spells pdf, but it needs A TON of revising, and is kind of specific, thought it adds in a lot of things the official living spells don't.
 


I've seen lots of people on this website who say the skill system is broken, or needs to be added too, etc. I think it was designed to be minimal and I personally don't find it lacking other than the fact that the DC system is a little too arbitary and I have a tough time assigning DC's.

Do people think the problem is the players choice in skills and their ability to increase their modifiers as they advance in level?

Not necessarily. Here's my general problems with the skill system in 5e:

*Binary Outcomes - Success or Failure is probably the least interesting skill check resolution possible. Note that I'm not necessarily talking about "failing forward"; but rather that there's room in the system for "Success, and", "Success, but", and "Failure, but" as potential outcomes to any given check.

*Single Roll Encounters - This is a problem that only 4e has tried to resolve (through Skill Challenges) and after multiple attempts they only... sort of succeeded? The problem with 4e skill challenges wasn't the system itself but how the skill system interacted with the class design, which has carried on through to 5th edition. Which leads to another problem.

*Unbalanced Class-Pillar Support - Bards are the party face. Rangers handle the exploration pillar. This leaves social skill challenges with the Bard running point everyone else essential being sidekicks. The solution comes from giving each character and each class unique ways to contribute to each pillar. A (poorly executed) example would be the Fighter's Extreme Athlete. The Fighter's excellent conditioning allows them naturally excel at swimming and climbing (outside of heavy armor, anyway). But the Fighter could have access to other choices to help them excel in a variety and encounters. A great-axe fighter may have a background as a lumberjack, and thus know their way around a forest better than most. A mercenary would excel at bartering. A bodyguard? Intimidation, perception, insight. These not only increase choices points at level up but also help flesh out more who the character not only is but was.

*
Lack of Combat Application - This is the big one that applies to this particular thread. Characters aren't using their skills in "combat". Or at least not nearly often enough. This is an issue with the skill system but also with monster design; adversaries don't often act in ways that necessitate skill checks. We also don't get a lot of mechanical guidance vis-a-vis parley and/or intimidation for various monsters. How much easier is it to scare off a kobold than it is a goblin, or a bugbear, or an owlbear? How easy is it to convince a hobgoblin captain that sustained combat is in neither party's best interest? How about the same, but with an orc warchief? Which types of bears does playing dead work with? Which monstrosities can be bought off/distracted with food? Is the creature territorial? Will they let the PCs leave if they simply back off and try to find another way around? There's a lot of room to building interesting encounters (and interesting adversaries) beyond giving them different combat tactics and abilities.
 

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