Level Up (A5E) Changes to race (species?)

[Crimson Longinus]

In the end, I think the thing we should avoid is having races that are smarter than others. Basically, a race should only boost STR, DEX or CON, and never the other three, which might be best left to the background.

Perhaps. Mental stats get problematic much easier. Then again in fiction some beings being super smart is a common trope. Vulcans and androids in Star Trek are clearly smarter than humans and I really don't think that is problematic.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That product just has 'elf culture' dwarf culture' and so on. Once you do the same for cultures with obvious real world analogues it gets racist really quick and you must be blind to not see that.

Firstly, don’t make it personal.
Second, no it doesn’t, and you have never done even the slightest work to show that it does. Repeating a claim doesn’t actual support it.

you put an 8 in str, and with +2 it’s a 10. That’s downright feeble for a Minotaur, you are one of the weakest Minotaurs in existence...congrats.

but yes your still a Minotaur, a race of big strong people. So with your own people your anemic, but with smaller races your just “ok”.

why is that a problem? Why do we have to turnover the Apple cart of race design for this? Point buys don’t allow 3s in a stat by default, does that need to change so you can “really” play that bookish Minotaur?

I really don’t care. Other people do. Those other people are getting their way, in some form, with an optional rule of some kind.

It won’t hurt your game, either way.

Also, hyperbole never strengthens an argument. I agree that a 10 strength Minotaur is plenty weak, and leaves plenty of points for boosting Int. Others disagree very strongly. No one is suggesting that they should be able to drop a score down to 3.

 

[Haldrik]

Perhaps. Mental stats get problematic much easier. Then again in fiction some beings being super smart is a common trope. Vulcans and androids in Star Trek are clearly smarter than humans and I really don't think that is problematic.

Here, the Vulcans are smarter because many (not all) individuals chose Backgrounds that train Intelligence. They produce philosophers as a kind of national industry.

And definitely not all individuals. The Romulans are the same species as Vulcans but have very different abilities because of very different backgrounds.

 

[Haldrik]

Exactly. I would keep it simpler, and make it just race and class, but if we wanna get complicated we could.

The "race" is highly sensitive. So complications for the sake of diversifying it are worth it.

Cultural background is ones personal participation in a culture, is an important design space for education and training from upbringing and career, and is a method to diversify the culture, to ensure that the culture is diverse and individualist, and implies that a culture evolves when new backgrounds become more prominent and old backgrounds diminish in numbers.

One way to look at it is:

"Race" → Species+CulturalBackground
"Class" → Class+Archetype

And all of these are official choices for one of two ability improvements.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Firstly, don’t make it personal.
Second, no it doesn’t, and you have never done even the slightest work to show that it does. Repeating a claim doesn’t actual support it.

If you can't see why giving fantasy Germans different ASIs than to fantasy Ethiopians would be racist, then I can't really help you.

 

[Haldrik]

[triplepost]

 

[Haldrik]

This is just pointless complexity for no gain. If you want players to be able to put bonuses wherever then just do that instead of constructing this meaningless rigamarole.

The purpose of this complexity is to channel mechanical options across vivid narrative tropes and flavor.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The "race" is highly sensitive. So complications for the sake of diversifying it are worth it.

Cultural background is ones personal participation in a culture, is an important design space for education and training from upbringing and career, and is a method to diversify the culture, to ensure that the culture is diverse and individualist, and implies that a culture evolves when new backgrounds become more prominent and old backgrounds diminish in numbers.

One way to look at it is:

"Race" → Species+CulturalBackground
"Class" → Class+Archetype

And all of these are official choices for one of two ability improvements.

Eh, either way. Subclass shouldn’t affect level 1 ASIs unless it’s a level 1 subclass, and background shouldn’t get eaten by culture. Otherwise, go nuts.

If you can't see why giving fantasy Germans different ASIs than to fantasy Ethiopians would be racist, then I can't really help you.

I don’t need your help, or your condescension. There isn’t anything to see, here. You’re chasing a phantom.

 

[Haldrik]

Subclass shouldn’t affect level 1 ASIs unless it’s a level 1 subclass

I prefer the Archetype is always precisely what is being chosen at level 1. For example, the Fighter can choose an archetype by choosing a corresponding Fighting Style.

Thus this level 1 choice offers both the class and the archetype as choices to choose from when improving the two abilities.

background shouldn’t get eaten by culture. Otherwise, go nuts.

The background is what the character is ADDING TO the culture.

 

[Undrave]

Ugh. This I absolutely hate. I get where you’re coming from, but gnomes being noticeably smarter than humans is part of what makes building Gnomish societies interesting.

I’m fine with an alternative to racial ASIs as a variant rule, though, so whatever.

Perhaps. Mental stats get problematic much easier. Then again in fiction some beings being super smart is a common trope. Vulcans and androids in Star Trek are clearly smarter than humans and I really don't think that is problematic.

For what it's worth I agree, but I can also see how it can get problematics. I don't know if I would agree that Vulcans are necessarily smarter than humans in Star Trek... their technology is more advanced, that's for certain, but nothing that is beyond humans' ability to understand or manipulate. Vulcans, and Gnomes, have the benefit of living longer life and have more chances to improve however.

You could argue: are gnomes naturally smarter than humans, or does their civilization simply values knowledge and technical skills more highly than humans and thus produces more technologically inclined people who then push the overall tech level of the civilization? In that case, the cultural component would explain the bump to INT.