Level Up (A5E) Changes to race (species?)

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Well, the Purple Dragon Knight and Undying Warlock come to mind. Neither go far enough to make their concept as interesting as it could be. Most of the humanoid races in Volo's aren't very good (so I'm happy some of them have since been corrected). I didn't like either of the druid circles in Xanathar's, or their implementation of the Arcane Archer, or the Warmage. Most of the other stuff is ok.

I guess I'm overstating my case a little. Still burned over WotC's inability to make a large race or implement psionics. Also, I really like the concept of the Four Elements Monk (big Avatar fan), and the poor, poor implementation of it in the PH makes me sad.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
How about this compromise:

Instead of an ASI, each race has two stats where the maximum is 22 instead of 20. This means that it's only impact will be at the highest level of play where the impact will be mitigated, but you still get that all too important feel of 'natural strengths' that some people like.
I mean, the best compromise is probably the option of playing the race as originally published, or the variant with a non-restricted +2/+1 of the player’s choice.
 

Mechanic C, originally labeled 'Culture', will now be referred to as 'Upbringing'. Hopefully this will avoid arguments over terminology.

I'm also having to rethink the extent that this mechanic can stretch things, due to the survey result that rejects the idea of adding mechanics for social combat. There's still room for "affecting social interactions", though.


So, starting with a baseline neutral race, Elf, I want to look at how much design space is available here by default.

Note: Keen Senses (proficiency in Perception) can be argued to be a racial trait. I had skipped it when doing the racial summaries because it was implemented as a skill proficiency, but under review, it belongs under racial. Since the elf racial package felt a bit weak, adding this proficiency felt fine.


High Elf, excluding basic Elf racial traits
  • Languages: 3 (Common, Elvish, player choice)
  • Elf Weapon Training (longsword, short sword, long bow, shortbow)
  • Cantrip

Wood Elf, excluding basic Elf racial traits
  • Languages: 2 (Common, Elvish)
  • Elf Weapon Training (longsword, short sword, long bow, shortbow)
  • Fleet of Foot: +5 feet to base speed
  • Mask of the Wild: Can hide while lightly obscured

Dark Elf, excluding basic Elf racial traits
  • Languages: 2 (Common, Elvish)
  • Drow Weapon Training (rapier, short sword, hand crossbow)
  • Superior Darkvision: 120 feet
  • Drow Magic: Dancing Lights cantrip, Faerie Fire at 3rd, Darkness at 5th
  • Sunlight Sensitivity: Disadvantage in direct sunlight


So, a language and a cantrip (High Elf) are equivalent to increased walking speed and the ability to hide while lightly obscured (Wood Elf), which are equivalent to improved darkvision distance and a set of spells (cantrip, 1st level spell at 3rd level, 2nd level spell at 5th level) but with the Sunlight Sensitivity disability.

As a baseline, we can take a proficiecy, two languages, limited weapon training, and two other small features (language + cantrip, or move speed + hiding) as the explicitly available design space available. That doesn't mean we can't expand on it, but we should at least be allowed this much.


However, what about other races?

Dwarves have weapon training similar to elves, along with a tool proficiency and a limited skill proficiency (Stonecunning). 2 languages.

Dragonborn get 2 languages and... basically nothing else. Does Breath Weapon really have that much weight?

Gnomes get 2 languages, and either a cantrip and a ritual spell, or a tool proficiency (with toys) and a partial proficiency.

Half-orcs get 2 languages, a skill proficiency (Intimidation), and Savage Attacks (bonus critical dice).

Halflings get 2 languages, and either a bonus hiding mechanism, or resistance to poison (same as dwarves' racial).


Let's start by just noting that 2 languages are universal. The languages are always Common and a cultural language.

So if we look at what's left after that...

High Elf: 1 language; weapon training; cantrip
Wood Elf: weapon training; speed boost; hiding augment
Dark Elf: weapon training; darkvision boost; 1-3-5 magic training; <sunlight penalty>
Dwarf: weapon training; tool proficiency; stonecunning; armor training
Halfling: better stealth or extra resistance; nimbleness
Dragonborn: ---
Gnome: cantrip and ritual; or artificer's lore, tool proficiency, and tinker toys
Half-Elf: 2 skill proficiencies; 1 language
Half-Orc: 1 skill proficiency (Intimidation); bonus crit dice
Tiefling: --- (got 1-3-5 magic, currently allocated to race)


Very roughly, each race gets 5 points of stuff. 2 points go into base languages, and another 3 points of 'other', where they can be used for a cantrip, a language, limited weapon or armor training, or a limited or predefined skill proficiency. There's also a few other unique options. All of these are presumably roughly the same value as a new language.

Half-elf takes the upper hand here, with 2 full skill proficiencies of the player's choice, rather than an assigned (and possibly limited) proficiency.

Dragonborn and Tiefling get nothing, apparently because they got natural means of doing damage (Breath Weapon, and presumably inborn magic). Are those traits worth completely wiping out any other minor options?

Let's take a look at another race with natural weapons: Tabaxi.

Innate:
  • Lifespan: Under 100 years. Young until late teens
  • Size: human+ height, slender, Medium
  • Speed: 30 feet
  • Darkvision: 60 feet
  • Feline Agility: Double movement one turn, in exchange for 0 in another turn.
  • Cat's Claws: 20 foot climb speed
  • Cat's Claws: 1d4+Str slashing attack

Cultural:

Cat's Talent: Proficiency in Perception, Proficiency in Stealth
Languages: Common and one of your choice

In this case, it's a bit closer to the half-elf on the cultural side. On the other hand, the natural weapons are barely more than default unarmed strikes (1 + Str bludgeoning). The innate traits are more about movement.

The dragonborn's Breath Weapon, if taken in cone format, is weaker than Burning Hands at 1st level, and matches Burning Hands at 6th level. It only improves above Burning Hands at 11th level.

Compare that with the 1-3-5 magic trait, where you get a cantrip at 1st level, and a 1st level spell at 3rd level that you can cast once per day (same as Breath Weapon). Breath Weapon is certainly weaker than the 1-3-5 magic trait, but seems to have used up the same design space.



Now, I want to look at how much design space I'd want to give the Upbringing mechanic. Writing up examples for a dozen or so Upbringing types (agrarian, mercantile, warlike, nomadic, traveling show, noble, religious, criminal, magical training, mountainous environment, forested environment, etc), I tend to find a comfortable balance at around:

2 languages (Common + cultural)
1 skill proficiency
2 tool proficiencies
1 social advantage
1 special trick


This is a bit stronger than the design space that the races have left over by default, but it feels like enough to warrant its own mechanic, whereas the amount shown to be extracted from the exiting 5E races feels too weak to be worth separating out as a separate mechanic.

For definitions:

A Social Advantage is a trait that grants you advantage on social checks under particular conditions. An agrarian culture might make it easier to handle social interactions that have an intended goal of cooperation, while a nomadic culture might make it easier to handle social interactions where you want to avoid trouble.

The Social Advantage traits are intentionally broad. The purpose is to encourage the character to approach social interactions in a particular way, to give actual mechanical benefits for engaging socially in a way that matches how your character presumably developed. It also helps counteract the issue where certain classes simply don't have the skills necessary to participate in social encounters, since getting advantage means you can still be competent, even with a +0, as long as you stay in character.

The Special Trick is space reserved for things like the gnome's tinker toys, or the wood elf's movement and hiding bonuses. I haven't really built for those yet, though, so it's mostly just rough sketch space at the moment.


Upbringing
  • You learn the Common language, as well as the language of the predominant culture where you grew up. This may be a racial or regional language (eg: elven, Calishite, etc).
  • You may choose a package of benefits based on the type of culture you grew up in. Choose from those below. (To be expanded on.)

First draft list of upbringings.

Agrarian — Nature is both bounty and enemy. We only survive by standing together.
  • Gain proficiency in Animal Handling or Nature.
  • Gain proficiency in use of Land Vehicles, and one of: Brewer's, Carpenter's, Cook's, Leatherworker's, or Tinker's tools.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions involving cooperation.
  • --?

Mercantile — Everything has a price. If you feel you were cheated in a deal, it's your own fault.
  • Gain proficiency in Persuasion.
  • Gain proficiency in either Land Vehicle use or Water Vehicle use, and an Artisan's tool of your choice.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions involving bartering.
  • You can manage rough communication with any creature that speaks some language, even if you are not proficient in that language. You can manage reasonable communication within a few days.

Warlike — Might makes right. If you can't defend what was yours, it was never yours to begin with.
  • Gain proficiency in Athletics.
  • Gain proficiency in a personal martial weapon of choice. A normal quality version of that weapon is treated as a +1 for everything except overcoming magical resistance.
  • May use the skill of a weapon you have in your possession in place of Charisma (Intimidation) in order to intimidate.

Nomadic — You can only depend on yourselves and your family.
  • Gain proficiency in Perception.
  • Gain proficiency in Land or Water Vehicle use, Navigator's Tools, and Herbalism Kit.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions attempting to avoid trouble.
  • You may scavange for or find in your possession a non-magical item that you need, once per day.

Traveling Show — All the world's a stage, and you're up next.
  • Gain proficiency in Performance.
  • Gain proficiency in two gaming sets and/or instruments.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions attempting to entertain or draw attention.
  • You can convince a non-hostile person to grant you a small favor, a minor item, or a small amount of money after spending time entertaining them.

Noble — Noblesse Oblige
  • Gain proficiency in History.
  • Gain proficiency in a dueling weapon of your choice. It must be one-handed.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions that require formal propriety.
  • Gain training in basic magic. Learn an arcane cantrip of your choice.

Religious — Have faith, for God will provide.
  • Gain proficiency in Religion.
  • Gain proficiency in a set of artisan's tools appropriate to your religion.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions that involve your faith.
  • Gain training in basic magic. Learn a divine cantrip of your choice.

Criminal — Finders keepers.
  • Gain proficiency in Deception.
  • Gain proficiency in one of Thieves' Tools, Forgery Kit, or Disguise Kit.

Wooded Environment
  • Gain a climb speed equal to your walking speed.
  • Gain 5' of movement speed.
  • Gain advantage on social interactions involving concealing information.

Underdark Environment
  • Gain Undercommon as an additional language
  • Gain enhanced Darkvision, to 120 feet
  • Gain Sunlight Sensitivity

All of that was just rough draft ideas, but it quickly ran into an issue in the Underdark. The Underdark would be a setting where the location affects things, in addition to the culture. Namely, Underdark races tend to have Superior Darkvision (120'), and perhaps some sort of magical training (both for Dark Elves and Dark Gnomes).

So, sure I can put together Underdark Elves and Underdark Gnomes, to keep them separate, but that immediately fails the entire point of the Upbringing separation. I also can't move the spell lists into the racial section, because that conflicts with the non-Underdark versions of those races.

So how do you come up with an Upbringing that isn't just "Dark Elf"? It's sort of the equivalent of claiming that your upbringing was "Japanese" or "French", which I'd been trying to avoid during this build process because it fails the orthogonality premise.

For that matter, location seems like it would provide some basic differences in Upbringing: Urban, Rural, Underdark, Forest, Mountain, Swamp, Desert, Sea, Wilds, Fae. But then we're adding yet another puzzle piece to character creation, and that feels troublesome. But I suppose Upbringing can be a 2-parter: Location and Culture. For the moment I'm putting a positive and a negative in the location, while culture is strictly positive benefits.


Urban

Rural

Forest
  • Gain 5' movement speed
  • Gain ability to hide when lightly obscured
  • Suffer disadvantage when interacting with outsiders for the first time

Mountain

Swamp

Desert

Wilds

Sea
  • Gain a swimming speed equal to your walking speed

Underdark
  • Gain Undercommon as an additional language
  • Gain enhanced Darkvision, to 120 feet
  • Suffer Sunlight Sensitivity

Fae


Agrarian — Nature is both bounty and enemy. We only survive by standing together.
  • Gain proficiency in Animal Handling or Nature.
  • Gain proficiency in use of Land Vehicles, and one of: Brewer's, Carpenter's, Cook's, Leatherworker's, or Tinker's tools.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions involving cooperation.
  • --?

Mercantile — Everything has a price. If you feel you were cheated in a deal, it's your own fault.
  • Gain proficiency in Persuasion.
  • Gain proficiency in either Land Vehicle use or Water Vehicle use, and an Artisan's tool of your choice.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions involving bartering.
  • You can manage rough communication with any creature that speaks some language, even if you are not proficient in that language. You can manage reasonable communication within a few days.

Warlike — Might makes right. If you can't defend what was yours, it was never yours to begin with.
  • Gain proficiency in Athletics.
  • Gain proficiency in a personal martial weapon of choice. A normal quality version of that weapon is treated as a +1 for everything except overcoming magical resistance.
  • May use the skill of a weapon you have in your possession in place of Charisma (Intimidation) in order to intimidate.

Nomadic — You can only depend on yourselves and your family.
  • Gain proficiency in Perception.
  • Gain proficiency in Land or Water Vehicle use, Navigator's Tools, and Herbalism Kit.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions attempting to avoid trouble.
  • You may scavange for or find in your possession a non-magical item that you need, once per day.

Traveling Show — All the world's a stage, and you're up next.
  • Gain proficiency in Performance.
  • Gain proficiency in two gaming sets and/or instruments.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions attempting to entertain or draw attention.
  • You can convince a non-hostile person to grant you a small favor, a minor item, or a small amount of money after spending time entertaining them.

Noble — Noblesse Oblige
  • Gain proficiency in History.
  • Gain proficiency in a dueling weapon of your choice. It must be one-handed.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions that require formal propriety.
  • Gain training in basic magic. Learn an arcane cantrip of your choice.

Religious — Have faith, for God will provide.
  • Gain proficiency in Religion.
  • Gain proficiency in a set of artisan's tools appropriate to your religion.
  • Gain advantage in social interactions that involve your faith.
  • Gain training in basic magic. Learn a divine cantrip of your choice.

Criminal — Finders keepers.
  • Gain proficiency in Deception.
  • Gain proficiency in one of Thieves' Tools, Forgery Kit, or Disguise Kit.

Villainous Rulers
  • Gain proficiency in Deception.
  • Gain proficiency in one of Thieves' Tools, Forgery Kit, or Disguise Kit.
  • Magical Training (1-3-5)

Outsiders/Outcasts
  • Gain proficiency in Deception.
  • Gain proficiency in Cooking Utensils and Weaver's Tools.
  • Gain advantage when hiding in terrain similar to your Upbringing Location.


I haven't bothered filling this all in. It may be "too much". But going through the process may give us a better handle on how to work with the idea of this 'cultural' mechanic, in between Race and Background.

Would appreciate people's thoughts, and how they feel about the implications on how this (Culture/Upbringing in general) could be implemented in the A5E project.
 

So, no new discussion in the last couple of days. Was hoping for some critiques. I guess everyone's time was diverted to the poll thread about whether to include ASIs in the race portion of the construction. I had explicitly ignored that as being a separate and orthogonal issue to what I was examining.

Morrus has made one comment on the issue of racial variants, such as Sea Elves that can breath underwater. Namely, they would be considered a separate race, mechanically, than standard elves. Which makes sense, and simplifies some of the issues.

To keep things balanced, however, we'll need to account for how much design space such factors occupy, and make sure all races have that amount of space. For example, pulling from the UA elf subraces for sea elves and avariel:

Elf
  • Lifespan: 750 years. Young until 100
  • Size: 5-6 feet, slender, Medium
  • Speed: 30 feet
  • Darkvision: 60 feet
  • Fey Ancestry: Advantage against being charmed, can't be magically slept
  • Trance: Don't need to sleep. Long rest in 4 hours
  • Keen Senses: Proficiency in Perception
Sea Elf
  • Lifespan: 750 years. Young until 100
  • Size: 5-6 feet, slender, Medium
  • Speed: 30 feet
  • Darkvision: 60 feet
  • Trance: Don't need to sleep. Long rest in 4 hours
  • Keen Senses: Proficiency in Perception
  • Child of the Sea: Can breath both underwater and in air. Has a swim speed equal to walking speed.
Avariel
  • Lifespan: 750 years. Young until 100
  • Size: 5-6 feet, slender, Medium
  • Speed: 30 feet
  • Darkvision: None
  • Trance: Don't need to sleep. Long rest in 4 hours
  • Flight: Has a flying speed of 30 feet while not wearing medium or heavy armor


Sea Elves and Avariel both had Fey Ancestry (advantage vs Charm, can't be slept) removed. Avariel also lost Darkvision and Perception proficiency. In exchange, Sea Elves get swimming speed and water breathing, while Avariel get flight.

Is that balanced? It's hard to say in concrete terms. If a player is shown these options, are there reasonably strong motivations to choose any given one of them, or would one of them vastly outweigh the others, in terms of player interest? (And that needs a broad spectrum of players, not a single person who may have particular interests.)

Is this an adequate amount of design space for the racial portion of character creation? Note that this isn't including ASI bonuses, which might potentially be replaced with some feat equivalent unique to each race. I think if that's factored back in, we have enough design space to make relatively useful options for players to choose from. We just need to make sure that there's value in each choice.

For example, is there any point in having Sea Elves vs just using Tritons? The mechanical benefits are fairly similar. Do we need another elf variant in the same space? Do we lose anything (particularly compatibility) by not having a Sea Elf race?

And, most importantly, does this obviate the need for a Location under Upbringing? The design needs for a Sea Elf are fairly similar to the Underdark modifications for Dark Elves. This partly depends on whether the Upbringing: Location mechanic serves a sufficiency independent purpose. Should Dark Elves be Elves from the Underdark (Elf race, Underdark location), or should be their own independent race? Could the Sea elf be constructed as an Elf from under the Sea? But by the time we get back around to the Avariel that falls apart again for balance reasons.

So, questions:

  1. Do the above examples provide sufficient design space (possibly with the addition of an ASI or feat) to be considered adequate independent choices?
  2. How much should we lean on separate races for differentiation?
  3. How much do we need to consider for balance purposes? (Particularly things like natural weapons, either making them more useful, or obviating them.)
  4. Should I put together a more extensive race list for comparison/balance purposes, even if the A5E design is only intending to include the PHB races? Having a better measure of the range of balance needs means more accurate suggestions for how far the base races can be adjusted.
 

Now, Location.

This is a new component that I introduced in order to make things fit together a bit better. Nomads in the mountains are different than nomads in the desert. Agrarians in the sea are different than agrarians in the Underdark are different than agrarians in rural farms.

The question is, how much of this is relevant to character creation, as opposed to character background (not to be confused with Background)?

When we separate out race from culture, the purpose is to allow mix-and-match results that are different from the package deals the PHB offers. A human raised by dwarves, or a halfling raised by goliaths, or maybe just a human from the mountain country vs a human raised in the fertile plains.

This partly depends on how abstract we want to make the separation. We can say "Elves" as a race, and then "Woof Elf", "High Elf", "Dark Elf", etc as cultures. However if that's the only level of separation, we haven't really improved the situation to a degree that it's a useful modification of the rules, particularly for those races that don't have multiple sub-races. We also make it too narrowly tied to the races themselves, which isn't necessarily a good match when we try to apply it to different world settings.

On the other hand, it's also more usefully limiting to approach it that way. How many different cultural descriptions can we come up with? How many different ideas are there for mechanical benefits among those varied cultures are there? (Because if there aren't mechanical benefits, there's no point in making this a separate mechanic; just write out your description and move on.)

So, is it useful break down like:
Human. Desert. Nomadic.
Elf. Woodland. Hunter.
Dwarf. Mountain. Crafter.

?

Or is the location not necessary? Is it just fluff? Can you make characters to sufficient fidelity with only two constructs (such as the Heritage + Culture that Morrus has said will be part of an early playtest module)?

Can you make a Dark Elf using just Heritage + Culture in a way that won't break when you put that Heritage or Culture with a different combination? What happens when you put a Human in the Underdark culture? Does he get darkvision? Is it meaningful to say that a Dark Elf was raised by humans, or is that just a normal Elf at that point?

And not just "in the abstract". Actually look at the mechanical benefits that you'd have to assign to each section, and see how that would balance out, and how many options you'd have to create for all the other variants.


The Wood Elf provides an obvious sample to consider for determining what goes where. For the +5 movement speed, is that because the Wood Elf racial form is just intrinsically faster? Has life in the woods adapted them to quicker movement (where other environments would suggest more cautious (mountain, swamp) or less urgent (urban, plains) movement)? Or is the culture (hunter type?) just more aggressive in movement, such that it becomes the norm for those inhabitants?

The PHB packages make this a non-issue because you don't have any choice in the matter. But in split form, would a dwarf raised in the woods as a hunter have his speed boosted to 30 feet? If the 35 foot speed for Wood Elves is not racially intrinsic, then certainly the answer would be yes. But is it environmental (such as suggested by races living in the Underdark getting Superior Darkvision) or cultural?

As always, it comes back to the Dark Elves and their Darkvision. Either Dark Elves should be their own race (+Darkvision, -Sunlight Sensitivity), or the Darkvision (and Sunlight Sensitivity, for that matter) has to be a product of the environment. 'Culture' is just inadequate to produce that trait.

I guess it could be answered by whether Sunlight Sensitivity is a cause or an effect. Are they sensitive to sunlight because they spend all their time underground? Or do they spend all their time underground because they're sensitive to the sunlight?

If the sensitivity is the cause (eg: the curse that drove them underground made sunlight painful to them), then that suggests a separate race, rather than merely being a variant of the default Elf. If it's an effect, then that suggests that Location is a necessary factor in character definition.


This also has the issue of, for example, if "the Sea" is a valid location (such as for Sea Elves or Tritons), what happens if a Human tries to select it? Should it just flat out say, "You cannot pick this location if your race does not have the ability to breath underwater."? Seems reasonable, really. Might be similar restrictions in some other areas.


A basic requirement for this is that it be simple and intuitive to create a character. Race is easy, and in the PHB primarily revolved around which one gave you the stats you needed for your intended class. If the ASIs are removed, then it will become more about the general collection of traits that each one provides. Traits are always less useful than a stat mod increase, because the stats will tend to apply to most the things you do (for the primary stat), while the traits are far more situational.

As such, the removal of the ASI would suggest you get a lot of room to expand on traits. You could give up a +2 ASI for the equivalent of Mobility (movement speed and combat maneuverability), which is more powerful than just +5 movement speed and a better ability to hide. If you allow for a penalty (such as Sunlight Sensitivity if you pick Underdark), you have even more room to work with on positive traits.

So here we have more questions:
  1. Should there be a Location component to the Origin?
  2. Should there be a negative trait applied to Location options to allow for greater beneficial traits? (Note: the only place I'd consider allowing a drawback would be under Location; not Race or Culture)
  3. How much design space should be allowed for 'Upbringing' (Location + Culture), regardless of whether Location is used?
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Now, Location.

This is a new component that I introduced in order to make things fit together a bit better. Nomads in the mountains are different than nomads in the desert. Agrarians in the sea are different than agrarians in the Underdark are different than agrarians in rural farms.

The question is, how much of this is relevant to character creation, as opposed to character background (not to be confused with Background)?

When we separate out race from culture, the purpose is to allow mix-and-match results that are different from the package deals the PHB offers. A human raised by dwarves, or a halfling raised by goliaths, or maybe just a human from the mountain country vs a human raised in the fertile plains.

This partly depends on how abstract we want to make the separation. We can say "Elves" as a race, and then "Woof Elf", "High Elf", "Dark Elf", etc as cultures. However if that's the only level of separation, we haven't really improved the situation to a degree that it's a useful modification of the rules, particularly for those races that don't have multiple sub-races. We also make it too narrowly tied to the races themselves, which isn't necessarily a good match when we try to apply it to different world settings.

On the other hand, it's also more usefully limiting to approach it that way. How many different cultural descriptions can we come up with? How many different ideas are there for mechanical benefits among those varied cultures are there? (Because if there aren't mechanical benefits, there's no point in making this a separate mechanic; just write out your description and move on.)

So, is it useful break down like:
Human. Desert. Nomadic.
Elf. Woodland. Hunter.
Dwarf. Mountain. Crafter.

?

Or is the location not necessary? Is it just fluff? Can you make characters to sufficient fidelity with only two constructs (such as the Heritage + Culture that Morrus has said will be part of an early playtest module)?

Can you make a Dark Elf using just Heritage + Culture in a way that won't break when you put that Heritage or Culture with a different combination? What happens when you put a Human in the Underdark culture? Does he get darkvision? Is it meaningful to say that a Dark Elf was raised by humans, or is that just a normal Elf at that point?

And not just "in the abstract". Actually look at the mechanical benefits that you'd have to assign to each section, and see how that would balance out, and how many options you'd have to create for all the other variants.


The Wood Elf provides an obvious sample to consider for determining what goes where. For the +5 movement speed, is that because the Wood Elf racial form is just intrinsically faster? Has life in the woods adapted them to quicker movement (where other environments would suggest more cautious (mountain, swamp) or less urgent (urban, plains) movement)? Or is the culture (hunter type?) just more aggressive in movement, such that it becomes the norm for those inhabitants?

The PHB packages make this a non-issue because you don't have any choice in the matter. But in split form, would a dwarf raised in the woods as a hunter have his speed boosted to 30 feet? If the 35 foot speed for Wood Elves is not racially intrinsic, then certainly the answer would be yes. But is it environmental (such as suggested by races living in the Underdark getting Superior Darkvision) or cultural?

As always, it comes back to the Dark Elves and their Darkvision. Either Dark Elves should be their own race (+Darkvision, -Sunlight Sensitivity), or the Darkvision (and Sunlight Sensitivity, for that matter) has to be a product of the environment. 'Culture' is just inadequate to produce that trait.

I guess it could be answered by whether Sunlight Sensitivity is a cause or an effect. Are they sensitive to sunlight because they spend all their time underground? Or do they spend all their time underground because they're sensitive to the sunlight?

If the sensitivity is the cause (eg: the curse that drove them underground made sunlight painful to them), then that suggests a separate race, rather than merely being a variant of the default Elf. If it's an effect, then that suggests that Location is a necessary factor in character definition.


This also has the issue of, for example, if "the Sea" is a valid location (such as for Sea Elves or Tritons), what happens if a Human tries to select it? Should it just flat out say, "You cannot pick this location if your race does not have the ability to breath underwater."? Seems reasonable, really. Might be similar restrictions in some other areas.


A basic requirement for this is that it be simple and intuitive to create a character. Race is easy, and in the PHB primarily revolved around which one gave you the stats you needed for your intended class. If the ASIs are removed, then it will become more about the general collection of traits that each one provides. Traits are always less useful than a stat mod increase, because the stats will tend to apply to most the things you do (for the primary stat), while the traits are far more situational.

As such, the removal of the ASI would suggest you get a lot of room to expand on traits. You could give up a +2 ASI for the equivalent of Mobility (movement speed and combat maneuverability), which is more powerful than just +5 movement speed and a better ability to hide. If you allow for a penalty (such as Sunlight Sensitivity if you pick Underdark), you have even more room to work with on positive traits.

So here we have more questions:
  1. Should there be a Location component to the Origin?
  2. Should there be a negative trait applied to Location options to allow for greater beneficial traits? (Note: the only place I'd consider allowing a drawback would be under Location; not Race or Culture)
  3. How much design space should be allowed for 'Upbringing' (Location + Culture), regardless of whether Location is used?
I can think of a few extremely notable nomadic cultures with some being a big part of their setting. It might help to have examples
  • Darksun Halfling: In short, these guys are horrible desert dwelling cannibals who maintain pools of magically preserved blood to drink from & use anyone they can capture to fill the pool before eating the drained body. You should probably be running if you see em
  • Eberron, dinosaur riding talenta plains/blade desert halflings: These guys are a lot like the above if they were not basically monsters. They aren't going to kill you for existing, but you don't want to start a fight because they are known as some of the toughest & most mobile warriors & form a bond with their dinosaur mounts
  • Darksun Elves: These guys are pretty much nomadic tribes/clans who run in the deserts of athas rather than riding beasts. As far as the world itself goes they are probably the least likely group you could meet in the desert who would be all over killing & eating you. Nomadic traders in some ways.
  • Eberron Ghaashkala Orcs: These badasses are nomads who patrol the demon wastes & the labrynth(mountain range sized) separating it from civilization in the east. very little has been written about the carrion tribes that's easy to link to but pretty much they are (maybe)nomadic humanoids living in/off of the bones of cities (not necessarily literal bones) that were once the seats of power for the demon overlords
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