Level Up (A5E) Where to put ability bonuses during character creation

[Guest 6801328]

@Elfcrusher : I think that applying ancestry + culture bonuses to some combos of the two would make mechanics interesting if done some of the time. 5e is a bit limiting oddly for me because it gets done for everyone. Plus, I'm heavily biased toward finding backgrounds one of the most interesting parts of character creation, and I think there should be some Ability Score Bonus combos to choose from there just as one can choose different bonds, flaws, and skills.

Oh, I'm not arguing it should be in background, either. I think your point is exactly right: no matter where you put them it biases choices, and I don't think that contributes anything to the game. Maybe background would be slightly less bad because background isn't as impactful of a choice as race, but it's still totally unnecessary.

The one exception might be to just put the ASIs in the class. But I'd rather just get rid of any ASIs that are tied to character choices and just put it all into the ability score generation system. Either after-the-fact (i.e. floating ASIs) or a score generation system that produces slightly higher stats overall.

 

[Undrave]

So number 2. Minmaxer.
When you move abilities to backgrounds you will always see the same background/class combination and likely still the same races because of other racial features that combo well with certain classes.
And I do not see a point in designing a game around rollplayer who only play whatever has the biggest bonus. Why do you actually care if other people in different groups play that way? Do you want to enforce diversity in other peoples games?

So picking a race to get a +2 to your main stat is badwrongfun and only filthy optimizer do that then? Gotcha gotcha...

I'll be polite and just say it's not your place to judge the play style of everybody else. Racial ASI are a tradition, we shouldn't uphold them just because they are such. It's a debate worth having and I find it disingenuous to dismiss it because it's supposedly the domain of 'minmaxer'.

If you're not a minmaxer yourself then why do you even care about those +2s? You'd pick the same race with and without them.

 

[Undrave]

No, I don't. Because not all backgrounds have a clear connection to an ability score and because you can also be a bad entertainer etc. who obviously is not charismatic. Race is the only place where a guranteed stat boost makes sense.

I could come up with an ability score bonus for every background in the PHB. I just don't have my book handy... gimme a sec...

Acolyte: Wisdom
Charlatan: Charisma
Criminal: Dexterity or Charisma
Entertainer: Charisma
Folk Hero: Wisdom
Gladiator: Charisma or Strength
Guild Artisan/Merchant: Wisdom
Hermit: Intelligence
Knight: Strength or Intelligence
Noble: Intelligence or Charisma
Outlander: Wisdom or Constitution
Pirate: Strength or Dexterity
Sage: Intelligence
Sailor: Strength or Wisdom
Soldier: Strength or Dexterity
Urchin: Dexterity

There. It's not hard to assign one or more. They already have skills associated with them so you could just pick one of the two attribute associated with the skills.

 

[Derren]

So picking a race to get a +2 to your main stat is badwrongfun and only filthy optimizer do that then? Gotcha gotcha...

I'll be polite and just say it's not your place to judge the play style of everybody else. Racial ASI are a tradition, we shouldn't uphold them just because they are such. It's a debate worth having and I find it disingenuous to dismiss it because it's supposedly the domain of 'minmaxer'.

If you're not a minmaxer yourself then why do you even care about those +2s? You'd pick the same race with and without them.

Funny, you are the one who want to change things because you do not like how others play.
When you value a +2 to your main ability over an interesting, non-minmaxed character concept its on you. If you want to play something else than the usual race/class combinations no one is stopping you.
Why should ability score modifiers be changed into something nonsensicals because some people value a +2 over an interesting character concept and refuse to play something not minmaxed?

 

[Maxperson]

I could come up with an ability score bonus for every background in the PHB. I just don't have my book handy... gimme a sec...

Acolyte: Wisdom
Charlatan: Charisma
Criminal: Dexterity or Charisma
Entertainer: Charisma
Folk Hero: Wisdom
Gladiator: Charisma or Strength
Guild Artisan/Merchant: Wisdom
Hermit: Intelligence
Knight: Strength or Intelligence
Noble: Intelligence or Charisma
Outlander: Wisdom or Constitution
Pirate: Strength or Dexterity
Sage: Intelligence
Sailor: Strength or Wisdom
Soldier: Strength or Dexterity
Urchin: Dexterity

There. It's not hard to assign one or more. They already have skills associated with them so you could just pick one of the two attribute associated with the skills.

I think two each would be good. I'd go with...

Acolyte: Wisdom or Intelligence
Charlatan: Charisma or Dexterity
Criminal: Dexterity or Charisma
Entertainer: Charisma or Dexterity
Folk Hero: Wisdom or Charisma
Gladiator: Charisma or Strength
Guild Artisan/Merchant: Wisdom or Charisma
Hermit: Wisdom or Constitution
Knight: Strength or Charisma
Noble: Intelligence or Charisma
Outlander: Wisdom or Constitution
Pirate: Strength or Dexterity
Sage: Intelligence or Wisdom
Sailor: Strength or Dexterity
Soldier: Strength or Constitution
Urchin: Dexterity or Charisma

 

[Guest 6801328]

Why should ability score modifiers be changed into something nonsensicals...

Sure, your mis-translation of what others are saying is, if not exactly nonsensical, still not a very strong position.

The actual position has been explained to you many times, and yet you still repeatedly misrepresent it. And always in an ugly way.

Which, oddly enough, is exactly what you did in those locked threads.

So I guess I'll stop bothering with you.

The writing is on the wall. I hope you don't take it too hard when racial ASIs are abandoned.

 

[Derren]

Sure, your mis-translation of what others are saying is, if not exactly nonsensical, still not a very strong position.

The actual position has been explained to you many times, and yet you still repeatedly misrepresent it. And always in an ugly way.

Which, oddly enough, is exactly what you did in those locked threads.

So I guess I'll stop bothering with you.

The writing is on the wall. I hope you don't take it too hard when racial ASIs are abandoned.

And the position is that many players just play minmaxed characters.
And either you are bothered by how other people play (Which is why you point to the Beyond statistic) and want to tell others how to play, or you are one of those persons yourself who values stats more than role.
Either way, there is no reason to change ASI into something worse. Either stop trying to dictate others to play something more diverse or start to play something not minmaxed when it bothers you that you always get to play the same combinations.

 

[Undrave]

Funny, you are the one who want to change things because you do not like how others play.
When you value a +2 to your main ability over an interesting, non-minmaxed character concept its on you. If you want to play something else than the usual race/class combinations no one is stopping you.
Why should ability score modifiers be changed into something nonsensicals because some people value a +2 over an interesting character concept and refuse to play something not minmaxed?

First of all, I do not agree with your idea that picking class that can benefit from a race's stat bonus is 'minmaxing' because there's basically no 'min' aspect to it.You're not sacrificing anything mechanical to get that +2.

Second of all, one of my favourite 5e character was a gnome blade pact Fey warlock with no Charisma. I can do interesting 'not minmaxed' characters just fine. I'm even currently playing a Monk with a race that has no + to DEX. (Also, I've been meaning to play a Dwarf Mastermind Rogue but just haven't had the opportunity)

Third of all I see it the other way: Cool concepts are punished by a lack of synergy that doesn't need to be a thing.

And finally, "changed into something nonsensical"? Even people who agree that racial ASI should be kept can totally grok the idea of other aspect of your upbringing and background impacting your score. If you think only your race can bump up your stats then we shouldn't have ASI on level up either! Getting an ASI from a background is no different from getting one from adventuring: you're doing something repeatedly and gaining experience. Imagine if there were 'commoner levels' before your PC level 1, and one of them gave you the ASI from your background. It's the same thing. I don't know how that could be 'nonsensical'.

And if you're about to say "But at level up ASI you can bump up whatever you want!" (as if getting stronger from doing blacksmithing or climbing a ship's rigging wouldn't just happen) then so be it, we'll just give floating ASI to show the path to Level 1 then.

I'm not even wedded to any of those specific way to do ASI or even the idea of having stat bumps at level 1 instead of a bigger point pool/standard array. I can roll with any of them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Funny, you are the one who want to change things because you do not like how others play.
When you value a +2 to your main ability over an interesting, non-minmaxed character concept its on you. If you want to play something else than the usual race/class combinations no one is stopping you.
Why should ability score modifiers be changed into something nonsensicals because some people value a +2 over an interesting character concept and refuse to play something not minmaxed?

Are you capable of engaging with an argument in good faith?

 

[Guest 6801328]

First of all, I do not agree with your idea that picking class that can benefit from a race's stat bonus is 'minmaxing' because there's basically no 'min' aspect to it.You're not sacrificing anything mechanical to get that +2.

Yup. When the goal is just to discredit the opposing viewpoint, a common tactic is to pretend that even the slightest optimization is synonymous with the most extreme form of optimization. But, as you point out, "minmaxing" is a specific type of optimization. I.e., using Point Buy to get 3 15's and 3 9's is minmaxing. Choosing your race in order to get +2 to your primary stat ain't that.

I find it ironic that somebody tries to play the roleplaying card to argue for ASIs.