Level Up (A5E) Do Player Characters Have Average Population Stat Distributions?

[Ace]

I assume the average in a given species is 10 plus whatever add that species gets. This is 12 points in point buy whereas PC's are 27 and are tougher than normal people.

A civilian Orc for example is 12 ST, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 10 Dex, 11 Con, 10 Cha

The monster manual common orcs and most of the ones encounters are warriors or similar, faster, stronger, tougher and apparently dumber than civilian orcs and built on more points.

 

[Morrus]

I assume the average in a given species is 10 plus whatever add that species gets.

That's not the question. The average in a million NPCs is a given. What about heroic PCs?

 

[DND_Reborn]

That's not the question. The average in a million NPCs is a given. What about heroic PCs?

At level 1, about 12.5-13.

Basically, if a species average is 10 +/- racial modifiers, the average PC will be +1 modifier bonus higher across the board.

That's my take, anyway, FWIW.

 

[Ace]

That's not the question. The average in a million NPCs is a given. What about heroic PCs?

Apologies. I thought I answered in my last post. I was too oblique I guess.

PC's are of course more heroic than average as all the SRD the methods used (standard array, 4d6 drop lowest and point buy) end up well above an average member of the same species.

The monster stats are a bit wonky of course of this is desigend around fun encounter not fantasy demography

 

[Morrus]

At level 1, about 12.5-13.

Basically, if a species average is 10 +/- racial modifiers, the average PC will be +1 modifier bonus higher across the board.

That's my take, anyway, FWIW.

I think you missed the point. PCs are explicitly exceptional. Just like there's probably an orc somewhere with Str 3 for whatever reason, there's also a halfling with Str 22. There only needs to be one -- the PC.

I guess, can there not possibly be an orc with Str 3? That's the only logical conclusion of saying a halfling can't have Str 22.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think you missed the point. PCs are explicitly exceptional. Just like there's probably an orc somewhere with Str 3 for whatever reason, there's also a halfling with Str 22. There only needs to be one -- the PC.

No, I got the point, I just don't agree with it personally (like you said, no wrong answers... )

I'll put it this way, comparing PC to not-PC is not constructive really if you already believe PCs are explicitly exceptional. If you feel that they are, they will be superior anyway.

For me it is about PC vs PC. Do I think a STR 20 Halfling should be as strong as a STR 20 Dragonborn? NOPE! In fact, I don't think a Halfling should have a STR over 16, personally, because they are a small race. PC or not is immaterial. Does it cause some friction for the Strong Halfling Fighter? A bit maybe, but not so much I want mechanical bonuses to override how I think the "reality" of fantasy should work. Currently, a STR 16 can allow a PC to lift, drag, push, etc. 480 lbs! That is really strong already for most people. Now, make that a halfling who is 3 feet tall with an average weight of 40 lbs. Even at twice that weight you are talking about someone lifting 6 times their body weight! But that is just as a STR 16, so like WOW but not impossible. Make it a STR 20 and now you are talking 600 lbs... Sorry, but for me that is just too much barring magic, divine demi-god lineage, or something.

I'd rather see racial minimums and maximums and not worry about modifiers to starting scores. I don't want the world's strongest human to be as strong as the world's strongest half-orc. Sorry, but no thank you. A STR 18 human is close enough to the STR 20 half-orc to make me happy.

Now, all that being said, I know many players (most I can honestly say) either want their STR 20 Halflings or frankly really don't care one way or the other probably. From a game design perspective that is perfectly fine. I can always house-rule the game as I see fit when I DM and I am okay with that. I certainly don't expect others to have to play by my vision.

Anyway, overall, I voted for the second option. If PCs have racial modifiers (as currently they do), every member of that race that are not PCs should get them as well.

 

[Morrus]

I don't want the world's strongest human to be as strong as the world's strongest half-orc. Sorry, but no thank you.

Not even Hercules or Conan or Captain America?

 

[Tonguez]

I guess, can there not possibly be an orc with Str 3? That's the only logical conclusion of saying a halfling can't have Str 22.

I think that, thats where the narrative comes in because stats are a blunt instrument.

I have had in the past an NPC Ogre with Str 8, she was a sickly and abused runt of a mob who survived by staying away from the others in her clan, hiding in the midden and scavenging the left overs. Her purpose was to clue the PCs in that they were facing ogres ...

Equally I’d expect a Str 22 Halfling to have a bloody good story as to why he is exceptionally strong not only for Halflings but also compared to other common races that Halflings live among.

IMC that approach even lead to a special gnome barbarian ability “Calefaction” to explain how a gnome barbarian could get str bonuses. Calefaction is a rock gnomes elemental affinity to magma (molten rock), they channel it in such a way that during a rage their muscles twitch at hyperaccelerated speeds, the gnome is getting in multiple rapidfire tiny actions so quickly that it mimics increased Str

For me it is about PC vs PC. Do I think a STR 20 Halfling should be as strong as a STR 20 Dragonborn? NOPE! In fact, I don't think a Halfling should have a STR over 16, personally, because they are a small race. PC or not is immaterial. Does it cause some friction for the Strong Halfling Fighter? A bit maybe, but not so much I want mechanical bonuses to override how I think the "reality" of fantasy should work. Currently, a STR 16 can allow a PC to lift, drag, push, etc. 480 lbs! That is really strong already for most people. Now, make that a halfling who is 3 feet tall with an average weight of 40 lbs. Even at twice that weight you are talking about someone lifting 6 times their body weight! But that is just as a STR 16, so like WOW but not impossible.

Again its back to narrative, but the issue here is that you’re applying “Human standard” to fantasy races who arent the same.

irl the Chimpanzee is smaller than a human but an adult Chimpanzee has greater arm strength than a human. They have physiologically different musculature.

In the same way I’ve always thought of Dwarfs as having much denser muscle than humans do - which though they are smaller makes them heavier, broader and stronger than their size suggests.

who’s to say Halflings arent also like Chimps and dwarfs or, like my Gnomes, have an entirely fantastic reason to be as strong as an Orc

 

[rules.mechanic]

Not even Hercules or Conan or Captain America?

I guess the half-orc would have to be Atlas, Thak or the Hulk for those (not really fair, could easily argue those three are monsters) but the argument is that at the extreme end of the bell curve all six have legendary strength but the non-humans can still have a strength advantage over the humans.

 

[Cadence]

Not even Hercules or Conan or Captain America?

Half-orcs don't get to have heroes too? Why wouldn't the great strong legendary heroes of the stronger races be stronger than the great strong legendary heroes of the weaker races?

But you have convinced me that there's no reason the 20th level Halfling couldn't be stronger than all of the currently living Half-orcs. Having a low-level one do that seems too goofy though. And I'd like to think the all time Half-Orc hero would still destroy the Halfling in arm wrestling.