Level Up (A5E) Do Player Characters Have Average Population Stat Distributions?

[Guest 6801328]

If you don't have racial bonuses, I think features like Halfling Luck, Mountain Dwarf armor proficiency, High Elven cantrips, and Eladrin fey step would be valued more highly. I'd also look at Xanathar's racial feats for examples of features that could be attached to races.

(Full disclosure, I wouldn't get rid of all racial ASIs, I'd just trim them, and give every race a 1st level feat and create some race-specific feats as well.)

Oh, I meant to respond to this. I think the High Elven cantrip is an an example of good design. It clearly evokes the lore, it benefits all classes, and in the case of non-Wizards, and especially non-casters, it stands out narratively when used.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It was mostly referencing what a player says on dice rolls in general.

Ah, ok. Sorry, I was slow on the uptake on that one.

I do not have anyone make a line about hitting since they are an elf, maybe getting to re-roll being a halfling and rolling a 1.

Exactly.

 

[tetrasodium]

I've said this before, but I'd really like to see examples of these racial features that make up for losing the ASIs while making races strongly distinct from each other. I'm sure it can be done, but I don't know how to do it.

I know there have been examples over the last several pages before your post quoting one, so I'm figuring that maybe the disconnect is elsewhere. Right now in stock 5e every race has a bunch of mechanical boons like armor/weapon proficiencies, cantrips, a breath weapon, so on & so forth... those are the flavorful things that make one race play different from a second. On top of that all of those races get a +2/+1 ability mod or similar, because of those ability mods the power of those flavorful things needs to be kept below a certain threshold so they are kind of a half feat or less. Without the racial ability mod those racial features can be designed in ways that have more impact like a full feat or more & have things feel entirely different from race to race as a result

 

[Phoebasss]

Hmm... OK, I see your point. I just don't see it as a loss because that +2 STR race means I don't need to put as many points in STR to begin with. Now, personally less than 5% of my PCs will have less than 10s across the board. I've only made two PCs with 9's in anything in 5E. So, to me, you aren't losing the bonus, you are free to put more points where you want them.

See I like to have 8s. Clear weaknesses are a part of making an interesting character for me. And the game telling me I can't have an 8 because I thought half orc sorcerer was a cool idea just doesn't jive with me.

Also because of how point buy works with scaling costs its always going to be better to have the +2 in the stat you need the most of even if you want to wind up with the same total. So I feel like just putting the ASIs as floating leaves your games basically the same and makes mine better. Also it means we get to see more interesting racial features!

 

[Phoebasss]

Personally I like the idea of an orc wizard who decides not to waste his increased Strength and learns to wear armor.

And now there is some super smart LG orc in full plate punching touch spells on fools with gauntlets.
Because he's a PC. And PCs are weird.

I like that too, but 5e as is heavily discourages it. Mostly with the unavailability of feats for non-fighters and the overall power of dexterity, the do-it-all stat.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Hmm... OK, I see your point. I just don't see it as a loss because that +2 STR race means I don't need to put as many points in STR to begin with. Now, personally less than 5% of my PCs will have less than 10s across the board. I've only made two PCs with 9's in anything in 5E. So, to me, you aren't losing the bonus, you are free to put more points where you want them.

Kinda.

Getting a +2 bonus to raise your Str from 8 to 10 saves you 2 points that can be spent elsewhere.

Using it to raise your 13 to a 15 (never mind 14 to 16) saves you 4 points.

So the Dwarf Orc wizard with a 10 Str is still strictly weaker overall than the Elf wizard, even if he ends up with the same Int. Their total attributes will be lower.

Does it break the game or give you an non-viable character? No, of course not. But it is what it is.

 

[Minigiant]

Probably not but I'm not the one who brought up pro sports players in defense of it & the pro sports player analogy doesn't work either. clearly the weight of opinion is behind scaling them back towards racial norms out of the gate for whatever reasons people have. In my case it's because that allows more room for my players to grow @Minigiant can still give players a big bump at his table for whatever reason.

I see PCs closer to Lebron James than Joe Average.

That jacked halfling fighter with 18+ STR is the NFL DE of the halfling world. Everyone in the halfling village say "That boy is big." since he was a child. People speculate that he has human blood in him because a human adventuring party was is town 40 years ago and his grandma had his father while unmarried. The barbarian was winking at her a bit much. At level 1, you get the HS JV version of Big Halfling. At level 11, it's NFL All Star version.

I like that too, but 5e as is heavily discourages it. Mostly with the unavailability of feats for non-fighters and the overall power of dexterity, the do-it-all stat.

It less discourages it and more it places safeguards in place to not need to good that route.
Spells attacks already use you spellcasting ability score and arcanists have few weapon and armor spells.

 

[Cadence]

So, just to be clear, you're more envisioning racial traits that can be tailored to each class possibly?

Pathfinder has racial based favored class bonuses...

 

[tetrasodium]

See I like to have 8s. Clear weaknesses are a part of making an interesting character for me. And the game telling me I can't have an 8 because I thought half orc sorcerer was a cool idea just doesn't jive with me.

Also because of how point buy works with scaling costs its always going to be better to have the +2 in the stat you need the most of even if you want to wind up with the same total. So I feel like just putting the ASIs as floating leaves your games basically the same and makes mine better. Also it means we get to see more interesting racial features!

it seems like they will be in cultural/background options rather than tied to race. The big difference is that you might see something like dwarves getting a racial dr1/- or something instead of "medium armor proficient" +2con/+1 wis then picking up +2 con from "subterranian miners" culture and the +1 wis from say a warehouse manager background or whatever. on top of that you could have the half orc next door with the same culture & background if they both wanted +2con +1 wis.

 

[Phoebasss]

It less discourages it and more it places safeguards in place to not need to good that route.
Spells attacks already use you spellcasting ability score and arcanists have few weapon and armor spells.

It's not really a safeguard to say "dex is the way casters get AC. Trying to be armored will require so much more investment than putting a 14 in dex and taking mage armor that you will never do it even if you want to, and even though it provides no benefit over being unarmored." It's definitely a pretty hard line against wearing armor by the game.