Level Up (A5E) Do Player Characters Have Average Population Stat Distributions?

[Maxperson]

Whoa, what a thread!

I am afraid that the poll is flawed as it conflating two separate issues, thus any results will be next to worthless. A lot of arguments in the first twenty pages of so was due this.

I thought the same thing. The poll really won't answer what it was trying to get at.

 

[Phoebasss]

And letting that halfling to have that same +2 to strength than the half-orc gets would make just as much sense than letting that half-orc to have wings like aarakochra, because, hey the PCs are exceptional

Then we disagree about what ASIs mean. When we say half-orcs are strong, do we mean an inherent genetic thing that can never be overcome, or a trend in DnD's "default" setting which PCs and even some NPCs can serve as an exception to? I think it ought to be treated as the latter. Aarakocra having wings is different, because wings are an in-world thing that has a mechanical representation, where I think racial ASIs are the opposite. They are a mechanical thing which changes how a lot of players view the world.

EDIT: I think the idea of the 20 stat cap supports the idea that ASIs are cultural, rather than genetic. Because the upper limit of strength for every race is equal.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Then we disagree about what ASIs mean. When we say half-orcs are strong, do we mean an inherent genetic thing that can never be overcome, or a trend in DnD's "default" setting which PCs and even some NPCs can serve as an exception to? I think it ought to be treated as the latter. Aarakocra having wings is different, because wings are an in-world thing that has a mechanical representation, where I think racial ASIs are the opposite. They are a mechanical thing which changes how a lot of players view the world.

No, they are both the same thing. Or I guess I should have said 'fly speed' instead of 'wings.' But both the half-orc's +2 to strength and aarakochra's fly speed are mechanical representations of the inherent capabilities of their species and just letting anyone to take them on a whim would dilute the specialness and fantasy of these species.

 

[Phoebasss]

No, they are both the same thing. Or I guess I should have said 'fly speed' instead of 'wings.' But both the half-orc's +2 to strength and aarakochra's fly speed are mechanical representations of the inherent capabilities of their species and just letting anyone to take them on a whim would dilute the specialness and fantasy of these species.

EDIT: I think the idea of the 20 stat cap supports the idea that ASIs are cultural, rather than genetic. Because the upper limit of strength for every race is equal.

Sorry, I think this edit makes what I'm trying to say more clear. You can't stat your way into wings, but anyone with enough levels can stat themselves into being at least as strong as every half-orc that ever lived.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Darn it, new people come in, and I get sucked back into the thread from Hades!

Then we disagree about what ASIs mean. When we say half-orcs are strong, do we mean an inherent genetic thing that can never be overcome, or a trend in DnD's "default" setting which PCs and even some NPCs can serve as an exception to? I think it ought to be treated as the latter. Aarakocra having wings is different, because wings are an in-world thing that has a mechanical representation, where I think racial ASIs are the opposite. They are a mechanical thing which changes how a lot of players view the world.

EDIT: I think the idea of the 20 stat cap supports the idea that ASIs are cultural, rather than genetic. Because the upper limit of strength for every race is equal.

For me, racial ASI is all about genetics. Period. Which is why having a universal cap at 20 makes no sense for me. (Which, is why we changed it. ) We also added a feat, called Raising the Bar, which allows races with 18 caps to raise them to 20.

 

[Phoebasss]

Darn it, new people come in, and I get sucked back into the thread from Hades!



For me, racial ASI is all about genetics. Period. Which is why having a universal cap at 20 makes no sense for me. (Which, is why we changed it. ) We also added a feat, called Raising the Bar, which allows races with 18 caps to raise them to 20.

Welcome back to hell. I got to sleep this time. And while I think that's a fine houserule if you want to use it, it would be pretty strange to see in base 5e. And in base 5e, if we're using mechanics as a baseline for what races are like, the ASIs in conjunction with the universal stat cap and even some of the other features seem much more cultural than genetic. Unless dwarves know stonework history via genetic memory...

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sorry, I think this edit makes what I'm trying to say more clear. You can't stat your way into wings, but anyone with enough levels can stat themselves into being at least as strong as every half-orc that ever lived.

You can gain an ability to fly and even literal wings in certain ways as you level, and that some high level characters that start to be more like mythic heroes can eventually match the orc strength does in no way imply at all that it is cultural. (Granted, species based stat caps would be fine by me.) In fact the idea that orcs being stronger than halfling would be due culture and not due the orcs being massively larger is utterly ludicrous. It would make about as much sense than thinking that bears being stronger than wolves was cultural.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yeah, Strength and Intelligence seem to be the weakest stats this edition if they aren’t your primary. There are ways around this, of course, such as using the Encumbrance rules and encouraging players to take action to confirm suspicions before acting on them. But in general, those two stats just don’t do much if they aren’t your primary (which is why this argument tends to focus on halfling Barbarians and dwarf Wizards instead of Tiefling rogues and half-orc bards).

Oh, I dug this from the page nine. An excellent point, an if we are talking about 'advanced' version of D&D I think this is one thing that could and should be addressed regardless of how one handles the species.

I already said this in another thread, but I generally feel that the class design would greatly benefit from having more subclasses that use a variety of secondary stats. A battle wizard that wields (spell imbued) martial weapons and thus benefits from strength, a tactician fighter who has manoeuvres that benefit from intelligence and so forth. Now this of course would help in a situation where the species had certain inherent stat bonuses, but even aside that it would make the stat selection for the classes more varied.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then we disagree about what ASIs mean. When we say half-orcs are strong, do we mean an inherent genetic thing that can never be overcome, or a trend in DnD's "default" setting which PCs and even some NPCs can serve as an exception to? I think it ought to be treated as the latter. Aarakocra having wings is different, because wings are an in-world thing that has a mechanical representation, where I think racial ASIs are the opposite. They are a mechanical thing which changes how a lot of players view the world.

EDIT: I think the idea of the 20 stat cap supports the idea that ASIs are cultural, rather than genetic. Because the upper limit of strength for every race is equal.

See I really believe the former, but will accept moving ASIs to culture both because people don't like the implications of the status quo and because it offers up cool roleplaying opportunities. I definitely don't think they should float, however.

As far as the 20 cap goes, I think that was just a metagame balancing factor, with little narrative connection (which is why I don't care for it).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

See I really believe the former, but will accept moving ASIs to culture both because people don't like the implications of the status quo and because it offers up cool roleplaying opportunities. I definitely don't think they should float, however.

And I have to say this again: ASIs in cultures is a terrible idea. Many fictional cultures resemble or are just direct copy-pastes of real world cultures, assigning mechanical bonuses to such is a recipe for disaster.