D&D 5E Another monk thread! Fixing the Way of the 4 Elements

[Paul Farquhar]

The Sun Soul monk goes back to a 2nd edition kit that was created years before The Last Airbender TV show.

 

[dregntael]

Unearthed Arcana has an option that seems to be intended to fix the math of 4E monk:

Ki-Fueled Strike
2nd-level monk feature (enhances Ki)
If you spend 1 ki or more as part of your action on your turn, you can then immediately make one unarmed strike as a bonus action.

It's a bit boring as far as fixes go, but it does help a lot with keeping up the damage compared to other monks.

Alternatively, my favorite "simple" fix is to simply reduce the cost of all elemental abilities by 1 ki across the board. This means some abilities become free (Fangs of the Fire Snake and Shape the Flowing River) but nothing seems particularly overpowered compared to the Open Hand monk.

 

[Aldarc]

No, it didn’t. There are more elements than fire. Not only in what the monk was to represent (avatar), but it’s literally in the name. FOUR elements. Doing a sun soul just gave a nod to fire. That was it. And thus, it was equally lacking, if not more so

Yeah, the Sun Soul felt more DBZ than AtLA.

 

[Parmandur]

No, it didn’t. There are more elements than fire. Not only in what the monk was to represent (avatar), but it’s literally in the name. FOUR elements. Doing a sun soul just gave a nod to fire. That was it. And thus, it was equally lacking, if not more so

There should be one Subclass for each Element, for that purpose.

 

[Parmandur]

If I had to do a quick fix, I would give the 4e monk bonus "elemental ki" that cannot be used for standard monk abilities (I don't want the 4e monks stunning-fist ing gazillion times). Perhaps equal to their stat bonus.

I think the real problem is that , as Asireo said, you're often better off using those standard monk abilities anyway!

The Subclass power budget for the Monk isn't really able to make it a full or 3/4 Caster...

 

[Stalker0]

I see a lot of people asserting that the Wot4E monk is meant to be a "bender" (which I believe references a TV show). But from what I can gather, the "bender" use elemental magic as martial arts, while the Wot4E monk combines elemental magic with and through martial arts. I don't see them as the same thing at all. Am I wrong here?

well when my entire group looked at the class for the very time, they all excited said “oh cool they made a bender class”

so clearly the presentation leads to that conclusion

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I see a lot of people asserting that the Wot4E monk is meant to be a "bender" (which I believe references a TV show). But from what I can gather, the "bender" use elemental magic as martial arts, while the Wot4E monk combines elemental magic with and through martial arts. I don't see them as the same thing at all. Am I wrong here?

I don't think that you're wrong. Most AtlA element benders are primary casters that just use martial-arts-themed somatic components. - They are very rarely also D&D-monk-level melee combatants.

People are playing the Four elements monk wanting to be an element bender and use elemental effects effectively most of the time. However, the Four elements monk is a secondary caster if that. It is a short-rest version of a Paladin or Ranger. (In fact I think that is exactly how Ki points and their costs work out.) They have a lot of power invested in the base martial chassis, leaving only a little power for casting to supplement it.

To create an element bender for D&D similar to the ones in AtlA, you would either have to use another class and spells (removing material and verbal components, but emphasising somatic) or do something similar to the Sun Soul, and give effective elemental attacks as an at-will. Monks can do a lot of things the element bender cannot, and probably should not.

 

[Aldarc]

There should be one Subclass for each Element, for that purpose.

Or better yet: the 4 Elements Monk should have been designed well and properly play-tested in the first place.

 

[Parmandur]

Mmmmm, what was that buzzing sound...?

I don't think that you're wrong. Most AtlA element benders are primary casters that just use martial-arts-themed somatic components. - They are very rarely also D&D-monk-level melee combatants.

People are playing the Four elements monk wanting to be an element bender and use elemental effects effectively most of the time. However, the Four elements monk is a secondary caster if that. It is a short-rest version of a Paladin or Ranger. (In fact I think that is exactly how Ki points and their costs work out.) They have a lot of power invested in the base martial chassis, leaving only a little power for casting to supplement it.

To create an element bender for D&D similar to the ones in AtlA, you would either have to use another class and spells (removing material and verbal components, but emphasising somatic) or do something similar to the Sun Soul, and give effective elemental attacks as an at-will. Monks can do a lot of things the element bender cannot, and probably should not.

Yes, the Monk as-is has a full half-caster compliment of Spell points called "Ki", which dictates the Ki value of spells and spell-like effects. The Four Elements in experiential terms runs into the same problem the Paladin does: it's often more attractive to Smote or Fury of Blows than use Spells proper.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Why do you think the Wot4E monk was meant to represent Avatar? They concepts of "elemental magic as martial arts" is completely different compared to "combines elemental magic with and through martial arts."

Because when it came out, that's all people talked about. It's pretty obvious that the subclass was designed to let players play the archetype of one of the most popular anime series we've seen in decades, and mechanically, it clearly was trying to capture that. Thus, the many comparisons to AtlA that are all over the internet in regards to the class.

There should be one Subclass for each Element, for that purpose.

No, that would be redundant, and we certainly don't need a ton of subclasses that are pretty much all the same, except "swap fire for water". Also, having all four elements into the same subclass allows the PC to actually emulate the Avatar by having access to all four elements. Which they couldn't do if each was a separate subclass.