D&D 5E Another monk thread! Fixing the Way of the 4 Elements

[Parmandur]

Because when it came out, that's all people talked about. It's pretty obvious that the subclass was designed to let players play the archetype of one of the most popular anime series we've seen in decades, and mechanically, it clearly was trying to capture that. Thus, the many comparisons to AtlA that are all over the internet in regards to the class.



No, that would be redundant, and we certainly don't need a ton of subclasses that are pretty much all the same, except "swap fire for water". Also, having all four elements into the same subclass allows the PC to actually emulate the Avatar by having access to all four elements. Which they couldn't do if each was a separate subclass.

In Avatar, Bender's are only tied to one Element, with the exception of the Avatar. To get the feel of Bender's, properly, one for each is appropriate. The Avatar proper is more of a Sorcerer, with a couple Monk Levels.

 

[Sacrosanct]

In Avatar, Bender's are only tied to one Element, with the exception of the Avatar. To get the feel of Bender's, properly, one for each is appropriate. The Avatar proper is more of a Sorcerer, with a couple Monk Levels.

Typically, when a game tries to emulate a work of fiction, they go for the most important characters in that fiction. and seeing as how the avatar is the most important character, it's not unusual for that the be the top priority for players to be able to emulate when designing a class

"Hey, we're gonna design a class so fans of the Avatar can play that in the game, only no one can actually play the avatar himself." Yeah, nah....

Especially since, as I mentioned, every subclass would be almost identical mechanically except just replace fire with whatever. That's wasted design space, and subclass bloat.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Because when it came out, that's all people talked about. It's pretty obvious that the subclass was designed to let players play the archetype of one of the most popular anime series we've seen in decades, and mechanically, it clearly was trying to capture that. Thus, the many comparisons to AtlA that are all over the internet in regards to the class.

I didn't suggest people don't liken them. I'm just curious what the justification is. Only on the most shallow level do the Wot4E monk and Avitar benders resemble one another.

 

[Asisreo]

I didn't suggest people don't liken them. I'm just curious what the justification is. Only on the most shallow level do the Wot4E monk and Avitar benders resemble one another.

It's also a bit funny how people consider AtLA to be the only piece of media where eastern martial artists use the 4-elements.

 

[Sacrosanct]

It's also a bit funny how people consider AtLA to be the only piece of media where eastern martial artists use the 4-elements.

I don't think it's funny/unusual at all. It's an extremely popular show in pop culture. Most gamers would know that and probably wouldn't be aware of a far more obscure (to western culture) reference. That's hardly unusual.

 

[Parmandur]

Typically, when a game tries to emulate a work of fiction, they go for the most important characters in that fiction. and seeing as how the avatar is the most important character, it's not unusual for that the be the top priority for players to be able to emulate when designing a class

"Hey, we're gonna design a class so fans of the Avatar can play that in the game, only no one can actually play the avatar himself." Yeah, nah....

Especially since, as I mentioned, every subclass would be almost identical mechanically except just replace fire with whatever. That's wasted design space, and subclass bloat.

Well, then the Way of the Four Elements has the Avatar as a half-caster covered: bring Zuko is more fun, though.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I don't think it's funny/unusual at all. It's an extremely popular show in pop culture. Most gamers would know that and probably wouldn't be aware of a far more obscure (to western culture) reference. That's hardly unusual.

I guess this where Asians are coming from when they say they don't enjoy their culture being oversimplified.

Random Uneducated Dude: Martial arts plus elemental magic? Must be an bender.
Asian Friend: Um...no.

It's like saying, "That actor said the word thou, it must be Shakespeare," when really the play was written by Marlowe.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I guess this where Asians are coming from when they say they don't enjoy their culture being oversimplified.

Random Uneducated Dude: Martial arts plus elemental magic? Must be an bender.
Asian Friend: Um...no.

It's like saying, "That actor said the word thou, it must be Shakespeare."

Um.....no. There isn't some nefarious or racist reason here. Avatar is super popular. even over 15 years since it was released originally, when it recently came to Netlifx, it immediately was the #1 watched show. No one is arguing that 4 elements is only an Avatar thing. And no one is telling their Asian friends they're wrong to correct that.

When people associate and make comparisons between wot4e and Avatar, it's an obvious comparison because that's what people know. And when designing that class, it makes perfect sense why WoTC would try to capitalize on that popularity. Judging by all of the blogs and discussions out there (easy to google), it seems pretty clear people were making that comparison and viewed Wot4e as a nod to the show.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Um.....no. There isn't some nefarious or racist reason here. Avatar is super popular. even over 15 years since it was released originally, when it recently came to Netlifx, it immediately was the #1 watched show. No one is arguing that 4 elements is only an Avatar thing. And no one is telling their Asian friends they're wrong to correct that.

When people associate and make comparisons between wot4e and Avatar, it's an obvious comparison because that's what people know. And when designing that class, it makes perfect sense why WoTC would try to capitalize on that popularity. Judging by all of the blogs and discussions out there (easy to google), it seems pretty clear people were making that comparison and viewed Wot4e as a nod to the show.

I don't deny the popularity of the idea of comparing the two. Not do In deny WotC drew inspiration from Avatar.

Neither of those statements, however, demonstrate how the Wot4E models an Avitar bender.

Just because a comparison can be made, doesn't make it apt.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't deny the popularity of the idea of comparing the two. Not do In deny WotC drew inspiration from Avatar.

Neither of those statements, however, demonstrate how the Wot4E models an Avitar bender.

Just because a comparison can be made, doesn't make it apt.

Judging by fan reaction, it was meant to emulate it. And the reason it's so bad and why people don't like it is because it sucks at that emulation. that's the point.

We even had that discussion here when it came out

D&D 5E - Avatar: The 4-element monk mini-guide

(Wasn't sure how to move a thread from the lifeboat forum to here so I'm just reposting it) The World Needs the Avatar, now more than ever: A "Way of the Four Elements" mini-guide So, you have decided to go beyond a mere fist and quarterstaff and instead choose to wield the very elements of...

www.enworld.org