D&D 5E Is 5e Heroic, or SUPER-heroic?

[TheSword]

What makes Guardians of the Galaxy a separate genre to Star Wars? What exactly is different?

Good question, I’m sure that’s a topic for another thread, for someone else who cares more about such things. Nonetheless is a different genre. I suspect medium, writer and studio has a big impact on such things. There are probably overlaps. Where some superhero stories also draw inspiration from fantasy (Doctor strange) or science fiction.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Superhero is a genre, it's just an extremely broad one. Superhero comics have borrowed liberally from sci-fi, fantasy, and even real world events/history. So looked at from a certain perspective, almost anything can be argued as being part of the superhero genre.

However, to me that "definition" is sufficiently broad as to lose all meaning. Superheroes are their own thing. The fellowship of the ring fought off many orcs and other monsters, and even had a magic-user in their company, but I don't think many people would consider them superheroes. They're fantasy heroes, which is its own thing. Much like Harry Potter has supernatural powers that no ordinary person would have, but most people probably wouldn't consider him a superhero. He's just a kid wizard.

I would say some sort of costume, and/or taking place in a setting closely resembling the modern world, are the most iconic aspects of the genre. Not every story has both, but just about all of them have at least one.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I was referring to the oft-repeated idea that PCs are so special, especially after a few levels, that they bear little in common with the people they supposedly came from in their backstories.

Well, I guess it's true, you can level-up so fast that a few months of adventuring will leave any of your old friends in the dust if they're not improving themselves in that meantime. But if they could start with a Commoner statblock and level-up from there, they could reach level 20, it'd just be a lot harder than the PCs who'll usually start with much better stats and abilities.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would say some sort of costume, and/or taking place in a setting closely resembling the modern world, are the most iconic aspects of the genre. Not every story has both, but just about all of them have at least one.

Most characters in visual media have a distinctive costume, and the majority of fiction is set in something resembling the modern world (at the time of writing).

e.g. Strand Magazine. Characters easily identifiable by their costumes.

 

[Umbran]

It made me realize that D&D characters, especially at level 5 and above, are not heroes. They are super-heroes. And perhaps a big bold style is best suited for the game?

So, your choice of classification "hero or super-hero?" seems to have eclipsed the actual practical question about style.

 

[Flamestrike]

But they don’t have to. Flight is not ubiquitous, it has a cost - namely not being able to cast any other concentration spells, or for a limited time. Or for needing a flying mount.

My 20th level party I DM'd from 1st through an Age of Worms campaign could all fly.

The Bard via the spell, the Druid via spells (and Wild Shape), the Warlock on his Broom, the Fighter/ Swashbuckler via his two magic swords of Air, the Cleric with his Boots of Flying.

They could all toss around blasts of energy via spells and magic items, at least 4 could (and did) regularly change shapes or polymorph. They could raise the dead, teleport, never fail at skill checks, mentally communicate with each other, and take on literal Demi-Gods in combat and win. They were in possession of a number of artifacts or minor artifacts (the rod of nine parts, the axe of the Dwarven lords, a Sphere of Entropy, the Swords of Aqua, the Hand of Vecna etc).

Wasnt exactly a gonzo campaign either. It's just what happens in Core DnD when you reach the mid to high levels.

 

[Flamestrike]

At will?

Invulnerable?

No.

There was one PC that could fly through the Air, change his appearance at will, fall from 500' in the air and walk away, never fail on a skill check that was remotely possible, see in the dark without eyes, alter bad luck, shoot lightning from his swords, and fight Demi-gods and ancient Fire breathing dragons in melee combat, and win.

An amalgam of Daredevil, Gambit, Mystique, and Cyclops... who could also fly.

And that was the non spell caster.

Now as for the spell casters...? Well, they could fly, teleport, create invulnerable barriers of force, walk through walls, take over the minds of other beings, bring the dead back to life, become immune to Hit Point damage, change shape freely, ask for (and receive) the intervention of a God, and alter reality with a word.

And that was just class features. Dont get me started with what they could do with their magic items.

Im telling you now, assuming standard Magic Item distribution, and a Campaign that reaches 20th level (and beyond) PCs rapidly reach levels of power approaching (and exceeding) Avengers level power.

They're street level Superheroes (Defenders) at like 5th level. By the time they're hitting 15th? They wouldnt look out of place standing next to Vision, Scarlet Witch, Iron Man and Spider man at all. Captain Marvel and Thor might be out of reach, but the PCs could take on and defeat the first lot of Avenger plebs from around 13th level onwards.

 

[TheSword]

My 20th level party I DM'd from 1st through an Age of Worms campaign could all fly.

The Bard via the spell, the Druid via spells (and Wild Shape), the Warlock on his Broom, the Fighter/ Swashbuckler via his two magic swords of Air, the Cleric with his Boots of Flying.

They could all toss around blasts of energy via spells and magic items, at least 4 could (and did) regularly change shapes or polymorph. They could raise the dead, teleport, never fail at skill checks, mentally communicate with each other, and take on literal Demi-Gods in combat and win. They were in possession of a number of artifacts or minor artifacts (the rod of nine parts, the axe of the Dwarven lords, a Sphere of Entropy, the Swords of Aqua, the Hand of Vecna etc).

Wasnt exactly a gonzo campaign either. It's just what happens in Core DnD when you reach the mid to high levels.

And yet none of that changes my point that you don’t have to play the game that way. It’s cool that you gave the party items to let them fly but let’s not claim it’s necessary.

Magic is cool, and powerful. Power doesn’t necessarily mean superhero.

 

[Scott Christian]

Again, Superman is not the only superhero, he's just the traditional peg on the top of the scale. To keep it in DC, Batman can and has been taken down by ordinary thugs in certain stories. Ditto Green Arrow.

And Batman is not the only superhero. Look at the movies. Look at the comics. Rarely. Vary rarely are they ever taken down. When they are, it's with guys with guns. Guns. Something incredibly more deadly than a sword. (And spare me the police lecture on knives versus guns. Any sane person would rather face a knife wielding bad person than a gun wielding bad person. And if there are multiple bad people, then knives would always be the answer.)
In the movies Batman takes out entire buildings of bad guys with guns. And he does it without even using deadly force. A consideration that supremely limits his "power." Geralt loses to a single monster. Not even a really strong one at that, all because he doesn't use deadly force. Batman fights alongside godlike status partners: Wonderwoman, Superman, Flash, Aqua Man. And he holds his own. In fact, much of the time he leads them. Geralt can barely convince a barkeep to serve him a drink. Then there is equipment: Geralt has a silver sword for monsters. Batman literally made a suit that could enable him to fight Superman.
There is no comparison as to which one of these people is a superhero.

 

[Oofta]

My 20th level party I DM'd from 1st through an Age of Worms campaign could all fly.

The Bard via the spell, the Druid via spells (and Wild Shape), the Warlock on his Broom, the Fighter/ Swashbuckler via his two magic swords of Air, the Cleric with his Boots of Flying.

They could all toss around blasts of energy via spells and magic items, at least 4 could (and did) regularly change shapes or polymorph. They could raise the dead, teleport, never fail at skill checks, mentally communicate with each other, and take on literal Demi-Gods in combat and win. They were in possession of a number of artifacts or minor artifacts (the rod of nine parts, the axe of the Dwarven lords, a Sphere of Entropy, the Swords of Aqua, the Hand of Vecna etc).

Wasnt exactly a gonzo campaign either. It's just what happens in Core DnD when you reach the mid to high levels.

You had multiple artifacts in the party but it wasn't a gonzo campaign? Might as well add "gonzo campaign" to the list of categories that, like "superheroes" are in the eye of the beholder.

Different strokes for different folks.