Level Up (A5E) Changes to movement and AoOs

[CubicsRube]

One of the things that I've thought about implementing in my next 5e campaign is to also allow an opportunity attack when a PC or creature moves within the range of an enemy, rather than just leaving range. This makes it easier for front line forces to block off areas. It also makes shove a potentially more useful option and possible worth giving up an attack for.

Additionally I'm thinking about allowing grapples as an AoO option. This can allow front line combatants to try and stop someone getting past them. Grapples as AoO is in a grey area IMO in the current 5e, but if other tactical options are allowable in LevelUp, it might be an idea to be more explicit about it.

What changes to movement or Attacks of Opportunity does the community think would add value to 5e?

 

[tetrasodium]

What changes to movement or Attacks of Opportunity does the community think would add value to 5e?

I think the AoO when entering threat range was with pole arms & it was a good tradeoff givem how unwieldy they were then.

return of 5 foot step(3.5)/shift(4e). moving more than that provokes an AoO along with most of table 8-2 but that needs to be baked into class abilities

Spoiler: table 8-2 actions in combat

 

[JiffyPopTart]

We have been discussing adding in the 5' step as part of the disengage action. Its helps avoid the following (assuming a standard 30' move for both parties)

Disengage - Move Away opponent then does Move Toward - Attack

Disengage should allow you be attacked less than just standing there swinging back and forth should.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I would like to add back the AoO when using a ranged attack in melee instead of just disadvantage.

As for movement, I'd prefer if AoO were not did not use the PC's reaction but still was limited to once per turn. Fact is, many classes have already a bunch of uses for their reaction built in their progression, so AoO, with their once per turn-only-one-attack, tend to be overshadowed and not really threatening.

That, or allow characters to use the attack action as a AoO, so melee character and especially fighters would have really threatening AoO.

 

[Scott Christian]

One of the things that I've thought about implementing in my next 5e campaign is to also allow an opportunity attack when a PC or creature moves within the range of an enemy, rather than just leaving range. This makes it easier for front line forces to block off areas. It also makes shove a potentially more useful option and possible worth giving up an attack for.

Additionally I'm thinking about allowing grapples as an AoO option. This can allow front line combatants to try and stop someone getting past them. Grapples as AoO is in a grey area IMO in the current 5e, but if other tactical options are allowable in LevelUp, it might be an idea to be more explicit about it.

What changes to movement or Attacks of Opportunity does the community think would add value to 5e?

I have tried it. It does slow the game down quite a bit, especially for players that aren't (or have never wanted) to read and memorize the rules. But the net effect was people were more cautious about where they moved. (We used maps and minis.) So that slowed even the seasoned players down. It did make one character increase their movement (forgot how, maybe barbarian) because he wanted ways to go around other enemies. I also think we implemented something in the feats that allowed for the attack to not happen (like a rogue's cunning action). So you may need to go down the rules and determine if there are counters to this that make sense.
I think for us, half the group liked it (a little bit) and the other half really didn't like it. But all groups are different. Good luck either way.

 

[CubicsRube]

I would like to add back the AoO when using a ranged attack in melee instead of just disadvantage.

As for movement, I'd prefer if AoO were not did not use the PC's reaction but still was limited to once per turn. Fact is, many classes have already a bunch of uses for their reaction built in their progression, so AoO, with their once per turn-only-one-attack, tend to be overshadowed and not really threatening.

That, or allow characters to use the attack action as a AoO, so melee character and especially fighters would have really threatening AoO.

I think I'm happy with the reaction as it makes a choice for what PCs use their reaction for.

I'd be happy with allowing a full attack action as an AoO, but I don't know if it's right for 5e without bumping the power significantly. I guess that's why my idea of allowing grapples came about - as a way for strong front liners to actually hold back someone getting through the line.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd be happy with allowing a full attack action as an AoO, but I don't know if it's right for 5e without bumping the power significantly. I guess that's why my idea of allowing grapples came about - as a way for strong front liners to actually hold back someone getting through the line.

My idea is that, with a single feat, a caster can use spells as an AoO, making them more threatening that a martial PC who can normally attack 4 times a round. That why I was thinking a buff to the frontliners staying power wouldnt be the end of the world.

I personally already let my players use grapples and shoves on AoO; I thought this was RAW. You learn something new everyday!

 

[Horwath]

Making AoO not consuming your reaction and be available a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per round,would add nicely to the rule than any movement more than 5ft(without disengage action) provokes AoO.

It would give more power to melee characters.

 

[CubicsRube]

This is a cross-post, as I didn't realise I'd posted into the wrong thread!
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The psychologist George Miller came up with a "magic" number of 7 for how many chunks of information we can fit in short term memory. From my experience, having everything within a range of 3-7 items of information, choices, options, etc has worked well and I use it in a lot of my presentations, business cases and other kinds of communication.

I think it applies well here also. In 3.5 e we went from 20+ (although most minor) to 1. I think a few groups like an "object interaction" meaning to pick up something from the ground, getting something from a backpack, opening a door, etc works well as a chunk (I would probably have removing a weapon from a sheath exempt from this, as sheathes are designed for the purpose of quick and easy retreival).

So at the moment on the suggestions above, it looks like:

1. Moving within an opponent's range
2. Standing up from prone
3. Object Interaction
4. Using a ranged spell/attack

 

[tetrasodium]

This is a cross-post, as I didn't realise I'd posted into the wrong thread!
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The psychologist George Miller came up with a "magic" number of 7 for how many chunks of information we can fit in short term memory. From my experience, having everything within a range of 3-7 items of information, choices, options, etc has worked well and I use it in a lot of my presentations, business cases and other kinds of communication.

I think it applies well here also. In 3.5 e we went from 20+ (although most minor) to 1. I think a few groups like an "object interaction" meaning to pick up something from the ground, getting something from a backpack, opening a door, etc works well as a chunk (I would probably have removing a weapon from a sheath exempt from this, as sheathes are designed for the purpose of quick and easy retreival).

So at the moment on the suggestions above, it looks like:

1. Moving within an opponent's range
2. Standing up from prone
3. Object Interaction
4. Using a ranged spell/attack

This is probably a better thread for discussing it than the other simple/martial weapon thread, but it's wprth noting that specifically he was talking about short term memory

When you look at all the things on table 8-2 they absolutely chunk* together because it doesn't matter that reloading a hand/light crossbow is a move action or reloading a heavy/repeating xbow is a full round action because they all provoke an AoO & the reload action type distinction only matters if you are the one reloading it**. Likewise with a ton of other things on the list as you note with your 4 points. After a few sessions some of that stuff should be moving from short term memory to long term memory too

. *Think of area codes as a common example of something you think of in a chunk
. **There were good reasons why they used a different action type