D&D 5E 4th level Bladesinger with same AC as Tarrasque

[UngeheuerLich]

That would have likely gone down differently in my 3E games.

The Trolls had a +14 Grapple bonus, and are at +9 to hit with Melee touch attacks vs the Bladesingers Touch AC (no bracers or shield) of 18 (2 attacks each) to initiate the Grapple.

Once grappled, the Elf loses his Dex bonus to AC, and all Dodge bonuses (such as those granted by Expertise), reducing his AC to 21 versus the other 24 Trolls.

They then surround and maul him to death at +9 to hit with his d4 hit dice.

Seeing as the Elf almost certainly dumped Strength, they're now in a world of hurt, and likely pinned in the following round (reducing their AC by a further 4).

Bullrush (+10 vs the Elfs bonus of likely +0) is also an option.

More than one way to skin a cat.

That would have been no possibility. I think I forgot to mention the ring of freedom of action*.

Which nearly killed her later. When she slipped and was threatened to fall down several 100fts, the helping hand of her ally that tried to grab her was of no use either.

On a different note: no, strength was not dumped at all. She wielded her longsword just fine (she only had 18 dex probably...). But she had rolled the stats of her life...
... while the poor bard had 14,13,12,10,9,8 for stats (and he created 10 peasants or so before he got those high numbers...)

 

[Flamestrike]

That would have been no possibility. I think I forgot to mention the ring of freedom of action*.

Which nearly killed her later. When she slipped and was threatened to fall down several 100fts, the helping hand of her ally that tried to grab her was of no use either.

40,000 GP item? Schroedingers Wizard is alive and well.

Trip does largely the same thing. Melee touch attack (+9 vs Touch AC 21), then a Strength check (with +4 for size) at +10 v the Dexterity of +5 for the Bladesinger.

Prone grants -4 to AC, for a much more manageable AC of 26, meaning the Trolls hit with claws on a 17+

His HD are d4's.

Id likely get them to Overrun (+10 vs the Elfs +0) the Prone Elf at that point though, if that clears the choke point.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

40,000 GP item? Schroedingers Wizard is alive and well.

Trip does largely the same thing. Melee touch attack (+9 vs Touch AC 21), then a Strength check (with +4 for size) at +10 v the Dexterity of +5 for the Bladesinger.

Prone grants -4 to AC, for a much more manageable AC of 26, meaning the Trolls hit with claws on a 17+

His HD are d4's.

Id likely get them to Overrun (+10 vs the Elfs +0) the Prone Elf at that point though, if that clears the choke point.

It is a prewitten adventure*. I don't know why you mention Schroedinger here... If you think I am specially countering your proposed tactics, please look it up yourself. You will find those items readily in the adventure I mention in the spoiler Tag below. The abundance of magic items is a hint for what is coming. I can even tell you how they got the item. (Second spoiler)

In 3e not all levels are d4s. She needed to have fighter and wizard levels. Did I mention her stats were way above average?

Yes, overrun and trip are useful. But you should remember, that you provoke an opportunity attack when you try those maneuvers and automatically fail if the attack hits you. Also trolls are not that intelligent and they first need to understand, why their usual tactics are not working.

*

Spoiler

Night below. Converted from 2e to 3e.

Spoiler

The cleric attacking the PCs on the river, Ranchefus, wears the ring of free action. They follwed him to broken slire keep and killed him along with his zombies. It was the other wizard, last one standing, takingthe last hp with a critical hit from a thrown lantern, because no spell was left for him.

Edit: Now that I was looking it up anyway: it was bracers of AC +4 but I think we used the shield spell from 3.0 that gave +7 AC into one direction instead of +4 generally.

 

[Iry]

He's running 2 encounter adventuring days.

No amount of monster tactics is going to sort that out unless he does something about how often he allows long rests.

Its really easy to wipe out a group with good monster tactics. Its just not especially fun for the PCs to get stomped like that, so its rarely a good idea.

That said, I agree that increasing the number of encounters is the better option, but OP seems unwilling to do that.

 

[Flamestrike]

In 3e not all levels are d4s. She needed to have fighter and wizard levels. Did I mention her stats were way above average?

So what, like 30hp? 40?

Yes, overrun and trip are useful. But you should remember, that you provoke an opportunity attack when you try those maneuvers and automatically fail if the attack hits you. Also trolls are not that intelligent and they first need to understand, why their usual tactics are not working.

You dont have to be intelligent to overrun an enemy blocking a choke point, to get to others behind it, or to surround it. Animals would try that tactic.

Also, unlike Grappling, Overruns and Trips are not thwarted by a successful AoO.

Edit: Now that I was looking it up anyway: it was bracers of AC +4 but I think we used the shield spell from 3.0 that gave +7 AC into one direction instead of +4 generally.

That version of the Shield spell only blocks half the battlefield.

Even more problems for the PC if the Trolls overrun the PC holding the choke point.

 

[Flamestrike]

Its really easy to wipe out a group with good monster tactics. Its just not especially fun for the PCs to get stomped like that, so its rarely a good idea.

That said, I agree that increasing the number of encounters is the better option, but OP seems unwilling to do that.

Im not saying anything about 'wiping them out.'

Im merely pointing out the fact the DM/ OP is ignoring the DMG section on encounters, resting and the adventuring day XP totals and resource management, and then wondering why he has a problem with a PC using resources (Bladesinging is limited to short rests, and spell slots for mage armor and shield) to breeze through his encounters.

Its self evident that if the DM/OP stuck to the DMG Adventuring day XP guidelines, and the 6ish encounter/ 2 short rests to every long rest guidelines in the DMG that the game is balanced around, he wouldnt have this problem.

Furthermore, this is the problems he's having at 4th level by ignoring those recomendations. Can you imagine the problem he's going to have when more potent spells and abilities come online?

Literally all he has to do (with a 0-2 encounter per day median) is to implement Gritty realism resting and the problem goes away.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So what, like 30hp? 40?



You dont have to be intelligent to overrun an enemy blocking a choke point, to get to others behind it, or to surround it. Animals would try that tactic.

Also, unlike Grappling, Overruns and Trips are not thwarted by a successful AoO.



That version of the Shield spell only blocks half the battlefield.

Even more problems for the PC if the Trolls overrun the PC holding the choke point.

Good thing, the other half was barred for the Trolls.

And since I did never want a discussion to start about a 20 year old game and what I could have done better to kill my PCs, which I probably did not want too hard back then (Only the druid and his bear died... ), i am out of the discussion.

You are right about trip though, the attack is not thwartded, but I think you are still disencouraged to do so by the opportunity attack, but you mileage might vary.

I see my responsibility as a DM as making it a fun fight. Using every tactic to make the life of my PCs hard only forces the same tactics from them. Actually one of the reasons I do not like battle map fights. And one of the reasons I stopped with 3.x. I see no point in making everyone feel miserable.

Edit: 6d6+20 or so reduced her to 3 hp. So you can calculate her hp. Probably about 44. I bet some of those were temp hp though.

 

[Flamestrike]

And since I did never want a discussion to start about a 20 year old game and what I could have done better to kill my PCs, which I probably did not want too hard back then (Only the druid and his bear died... ), i am out of the discussion.

I'm only saying its relevant in the sense of your implication that 'a PC with ridiculously high AC cant be challenged by monsters.' They can, if the DM is good enough.

Always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm only saying its relevant in the sense of your implication that 'a PC with ridiculously high AC cant be challenged by monsters.' They can, if the DM is good enough.

Always more than one way to skin a cat.

That was not my implication at all. I don't know why you read that into it. You can't base a generalization on a single edge case example. I only said, that you can still have fun, even in a very imbalanced scenario.
Did you notice my remark about the bard in the same group?
He was was borderline underpowered if you only look at his stats... Btw, he had 9 dexterity and 8 strength... But he never tried to be good at fighting. He put all his efforts in his social and trading skills and had about a +15-20 modifier by level 6 or so. He made sure that all the treasures were sold for a reasonable price or traded for good other treasures.
He also had spells selected that boosted his inspire courage so he offered everyone +4 to hit and damage. I guess if you looked closely how much misses he turned into hits and on the extra damage done, he more than pulled his weight in combat and his weight was enormous (the character was quite overweight.)

 

[Helldritch]

I'm only saying its relevant in the sense of your implication that 'a PC with ridiculously high AC cant be challenged by monsters.' They can, if the DM is good enough.

Always more than one way to skin a cat.

You are in essence absolutely right. Just change the Good enough to Willing enough. There is a big difference between being good and willing. But yep, I fully agree with you. Either the DM change is approach and goes for gritty realism with the rest rule, or he goes to the 6-8 encounters per day. Not much choice over there.