D&D 5E Ed Greenwood called Brightlance's Tome of Knighthood "A worthy addition to the Realms and D&D!" What do you think?

[kieran_of_the_dark_peaks]

It looks good from the 20-something page preview. Not sure how much I would use it for the price. I would more likely let a player who bought it play with it, maybe cool to have a whole party of knights.

FR does have a lot in common with this in the way of heraldry and such, especially the Kingdom of Cormyr.

I also noticed similarities to the Duty, Honor, Country speech of Gen. MacArthur.

Agreed - we consulted with Ed Greenwood quite a lot while we were designing these knights. We wanted to take the elements of our world that we liked - chivalry, honour, heraldry - and bolt them together with the Forgotten Realms lore that already exists. If you want to create an order of Chivalric Knights in Cormyr, go ahead - we have awesome generator rules for creating your own knightly orders.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm looking through the preview, a couple of things I noted was that you seem not to be quite following the design standard of 5e.

• One of the things that is most noticeable is that you have them gain an ability score improvement at 11th instead of 12th. It's a small thing but the levels that all classes gain a standard ASI don't change from class to class (some gain bonus ASIs at other levels though).
• The table also mentions they gain a chivalric code improvement at 12th but this doesn't seem to be the case.
• They also gain a 3rd attack at 13th level when 11th level is typically the level that each class gains a boost to their combat effectiveness with something to boost offence or defence.
• The class also doesn't get anything that I could see at 14th, 17th, and 20th level. 5th edition typically doesn't do dead levels, especially for non-spellcasters.
• They also have two weak saving throws.

A combination of much of the above would probably put me off buying it, otherwise, from what I read there were some cool ideas. The knightly rank and heraldry is pretty cool for customisation of your knight upon quest completion.

 

[kieran_of_the_dark_peaks]

I'm looking through the preview, a couple of things I noted was that you seem not to be quite following the design standard of 5e.

• One of the things that is most noticeable is that you have them gain an ability score improvement at 11th instead of 12th. It's a small thing but the levels that all classes gain a standard ASI don't change from class to class (some gain bonus ASIs at other levels though).
• The table also mentions they gain a chivalric code improvement at 12th but this doesn't seem to be the case.
• They also gain a 3rd attack at 13th level when 11th level is typically the level that each class gains a boost to their combat effectiveness with something to boost offence or defence.
• The class also doesn't get anything that I could see at 14th, 17th, and 20th level. 5th edition typically doesn't do dead levels, especially for non-spellcasters.
• They also have two weak saving throws.

A combination of much of the above would probably put me off buying it, otherwise, from what I read there were some cool ideas. The knightly rank and heraldry is pretty cool for customisation of your knight upon quest completion.

That's a real shame about being put off - each of those was a deliberate design decision! We moved the ASI because we don't know where a knight will be in their heraldry, so bringing it forwards allows us to hedge against those skills. The attack at 13th level is there for the same reason - it's designed to stop the knight a) being too similar to a fighter, and also to stop the knight being over-powered at that level. Three attacks, plus ironside, plus Chivalric codes, plus heraldry abilities can create an absolute monster at level 11, so we kicked the attack further down to help offset that a little.

As for the dead levels, once again, it's a heraldry thing. No other characters get those abilities so we're trying to off-set those again. It also means you have to try and get heraldry levels, because otherwise there isn't much there for a knight. But combine those with completing quests and ... well, then you'd have a monster. Does that make sense?

In a nutshell, the knights have two levelling systems, both of which work together!

 

[doppelganger]

The hit points are also not quite right. Other classes that have a d10 for hit points may either roll the die or select 6 hit points. Your class can roll the die or choose 7.

 

[kieran_of_the_dark_peaks]

The hit points are also not quite right. Other classes that have a d10 for hit points may either roll the die or select 6 hit points. Your class can roll the die or choose 7.

Ah! Damn, that's such a small thing - well done for catching it! We'll update them when we do the first big round of updates next week.

 

[NotAYakk]

If this character is balanced with a Fighter at level 11, then at level 13 your class is broken. And if balanced at 13, at 11 is must be abysmal.

Extra Attack(3) is a top-tier feature that takes a fighter from weak at 10 to strong at 11, in sync with other classes.

Extra Attack(3) is exclusive to fighters, and their big upgrade in the level 11-20 range (yes, bigger than 17 (action surge(2) or 20 extra attack(4); 4th extra attack is +33% output, 3rd is +50%). You are giving it along side other meaty features. Extra Attack(3) is so big that people level fighters 1-11 or 5-11 for it, then stop and start up other classes.

Unless your design goal is to render the Fighter an obsolete class (which, you know, is a reasonable goal; the fighter back-10 is a bit Zzz; but back-dooring it seems a bit impolite,, you should be explicit about that as a goal), this looks like a lot of pretty art, adventure hooks, with mechanics that need replacing. And if you consider Extra Attack(3) to be a suitable level 13 feature, plus very basic editing errors ("CLASS NAME" instead of the class name in a released product you are already charging full price for) it doesn't place much faith in the rest of it.

Good luck.

 

[Dausuul]

The White Tip's "Sea Worthy" trait is unclear. Advantage on what? Everything? Attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, the works? If that is the intent, it would be good to specify. Also, "at sea" is very vague (do you get the bonus if you're on a boat on a river? Swimming in the ocean? Underwater? On the Elemental Plane of Water?).

 

[kieran_of_the_dark_peaks]

If this character is balanced with a Fighter at level 11, then at level 13 your class is broken. And if balanced at 13, at 11 is must be abysmal.

Extra Attack(3) is a top-tier feature that takes a fighter from weak at 10 to strong at 11, in sync with other classes.

Extra Attack(3) is exclusive to fighters, and their big upgrade in the level 11-20 range (yes, bigger than 17 (action surge(2) or 20 extra attack(4); 4th extra attack is +33% output, 3rd is +50%). You are giving it along side other meaty features. Extra Attack(3) is so big that people level fighters 1-11 or 5-11 for it, then stop and start up other classes.

Unless your design goal is to render the Fighter an obsolete class (which, you know, is a reasonable goal; the fighter back-10 is a bit Zzz; but back-dooring it seems a bit impolite,, you should be explicit about that as a goal), this looks like a lot of pretty art, adventure hooks, with mechanics that need replacing. And if you consider Extra Attack(3) to be a suitable level 13 feature, plus very basic editing errors ("CLASS NAME" instead of the class name in a released product you are already charging full price for) it doesn't place much faith in the rest of it.

Good luck.

 

[kieran_of_the_dark_peaks]

The White Tip's "Sea Worthy" trait is unclear. Advantage on what? Everything? Attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, the works? If that is the intent, it would be good to specify. Also, "at sea" is very vague (do you get the bonus if you're on a boat on a river? Swimming in the ocean? Underwater? On the Elemental Plane of Water?).

That's a good note - and thank you for purchasing the book - I'll run that one past Cynthia, the writer of that section, and see what her intentions on that word. I'd say right now, it's probably skill checks and saving throws, but I'll get back to you on that.