D&D General Which Edition Had the Best Ranger?

[Don Durito]

I don't see how the assumptions are North American as North America has a lot of nonforest wilderness. A lot of it.

My impression is that it's not so much about the wilderness in North America, but about the cultural touchstones that are drawn upon, which seems to be a mix of hunting culture, the Last of the Mohicans, Daniel Boone etc, in which forests feature very heavily.

 

[Tonguez]

My impression is that it's not so much about the wilderness in North America, but about the cultural touchstones that are drawn upon, which seems to be a mix of hunting culture, the Last of the Mohicans, Daniel Boone etc, in which forests feature very heavily.

I’d say the bigger influence on what a Ranger comes from Robin Hood romping around Sherwood Forest, the Woodsman saving Red RidingHood in the Black Forest and general ideas of the English Forest Warden

Also you dont wear heavy army in the snow - your wear light and warm furs and hides

 

[Don Durito]

I'm just looking at the Ranger from Essentials and I think it's conceptually by far the best implementation of Ranger to date (at least the scout is - the Hunter was a bit weaker due to the attept to shoehorn the controller role onto it). Things like the Wilderness Knacks are simple and thematic. I wish they'd gone forward with that concept into 5E instead of backward to something more like the 3E ranger.

Wilderness Knacks.

Ambush Expertise You have wandered through dangerous realms, such as kingdoms ruled by hobgoblin tyrants and mountain ranges jealously guarded by brooding giants. You know not only how to hide yourself, but also how to hide others. Benefit: Whenever you make a Stealth check, each ally within 10 squares of you gains a +2 bonus to his or her next Stealth check before the end of your next turn.

Beast Empathy The beasts of the wilderness see and know most of what unfolds in their realm. Few folk heed them, but you have learned to understand and interpret their actions and attitudes. Your woodcraft is short of the magical ability to communicate with animals directly, but it is enough to reveal secrets that others miss. Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks against beasts. You can communicate simple concepts and commands to such creatures, though they are under no compulsion to obey you. With a successful Insight check (DC determined by the DM), you can read a creature's body language and vocalizations enough to understand basic messages from it.

Mountain Guide You have clambered over steep cliffs and ranged across imposing mountains. Your knack for climbing allows you to pick out the easiest paths up even the most imposing slopes. Benefit: Whenever you succeed on an Athletics check to climb, you reduce the DC of that climb by 2 for your allies until the end of the encounter. Only allies who see you make the climb gain this benefit. Watchful Rest Tong days spent in the wilds have taught you the best way to set up a camp. By picking out an easily defensible spot and carefully positioning your gear, you ensure that you and your allies have the best chance to avoid an ambush. Benefit: When you take an extended rest, you and any allies also taking the rest do not take the -5 penalty to Perception checks for sleeping.

Wilderness Tracker You are an expert at reading the signs of a creature's passage. When you inspect an area, a splintered twig or a trampled leaf is enough for you to glean a significant amount of information. Even the slyest rogues and sneakiest warlocks leave behind some trace of their passage. Benefit: During a short rest, you can make a Perception check (DC determined by the DM) to inspect the area around you. This area can be as large as 10 squares on a side. If your check succeeds, you determine the number and nature of the creatures that have moved through the area in the past 24 hours. You ascertain when and where they entered the area, as well as when and where they left.

 

[Gladius Legis]

BGS'sroute is okay for a video game but still bad for an RPG

Why? What's "bad for an RPG" about giving the Ranger unique features such as resistance to a certain element based on their Favored Terrain? The idea is to make the Ranger's features more applicable in a wider range of settings while giving that Ranger an identity based on its terrain, and that does the job.

 

[Don Durito]

Why? What's "bad for an RPG" about giving the Ranger unique features such as resistance to a certain element based on their Favored Terrain? The idea is to make the Ranger's features more applicable in a wider range of settings while giving that Ranger an identity based on its terrain, and that does the job.

Depends how it's done. Resistance to fire becauase you come from a desert has always felt somewhat lazy to me.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Depends how it's done. Resistance to fire becauase you come from a desert has always felt somewhat lazy to me.

The broad concept of Favored Terrain having constant benefits anywhere is what I'm getting at. Resistance to Fire isn't what I'd do for Desert, either, since hot sun =! fire. Resistance to Cold is quite fitting for Arctic, though.

 

[Minigiant]

But I do disagree with this. Ranger is a light, fast moving warrior with hit and run tactics. Regardless of terrain, the ability to move quickly and stealthily is the rangers deal. Arctic means hide armor, not heavy armor. Ever touched metal in freezing weather? It would be avoided. It's a heat sink, even if you have padded underneath. And believe it or not, stealth is just as applicable in the snow as anywhere else. Just ask the 10th mountain division (who borrowed a lot from the Norwegian fighters in WWII). Also, I don't see how a mountain or hill ranger would use a great weapon over the traditional weapons. Light and being mobile are important, and huge weapons are heavy and slow.

I've done enough road marches and tactical maneuvering in the army, in all environments, to know that it's not just forest that would lend to lighter armor and weapons.

Edit For example, the plains Native Americans didn't use heavy weapons. They were still very much focused on light weapons and mobility.

Using purely real Earth logic for Fantasy combat seems off. Real Earth weapons and fighting kits were made to fight other humans.

The D&D arctic and mountains are loaded with giants and dragons that would resist light weapons in most editions.

I don't think arctic rangers will be stabbing frost giants and white dragons with daggers and shortswords. And they'd be wearing heavier hides and insulation to absorb the blows of their weapons. You'd want a way to deal fast big damage.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You got modded for making it personal.

First, don't discuss moderation in thread. Now, I have to push against the rule in order to respond to you. Don't create situations where someone has to do that in order to engage with you, that is very bad form.
Second, the mod was wrong. Criticizing someone's behavior isn't "making it personal".
Third, "making it personal" isn't the same thing as insulting someone.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

and huge weapons are heavy and slow.

No, they aren't.

The biggest weapons I can think of that saw broad use by warriors outside of tactical formation fighitng of any kind would be the greatsword (anything bigger than a claymore isn't that common, but even the giggest german monster swords fit what I'm gonna say) and the heavy spear/lighter polearms. Not stuff like pikes, but fighting spears and glaives and such. Stuff like the lucerne hammer are pretty specialised, and not anyone's primary weapon, as far as I've read.

So, let's look at glaives, fighting spears, and greatswords. None of them were commonly more than 6.5 lbs, and when they were heavier it wasn't by much. All were balanced for very fast movement. Very, very, fast. Greatswords are not slow weapons by any stretch of the imagination. The glaive would be most "end-heavy" of the three, and it is still about 6 lbs on the outside (especially dueling style glaives and those kept for home defense and the like), and often counterbalanced with a metal ball at the other end, if the length of haft and weight of blade required it.

Watch some recreation combat with greatswords. It's fast.

The idea of a warrior like the dnd ranger using a greatsword only seems incongruous because of movies and such, that inaccurately show users of heavier weapons as slow lumbering brutes.

 

[Gadget]

I'm a little bit leery of the description of the 1e Ranger as a 'subclass' of Fighter. While that is technically correct as far as verbiage goes, it is a bit misleading. Rangers who lost their Ranger status became a fighter of the same level (similar to the 1e paladin, also a subclass of fighter), but In 1e terms, subclasses where just ways to organize things and share some tables. Iirc, the 1e Ranger shared about as much with the fighter as does its modern counterpart, with the exception of getting what we now call Heavy Armor proficiency. I can't remember off hand if the saves were different though.