OSR How Do You Award XP?

[Mannahnin]

Yeah. I would use milestone if given the opportunity, but cannot since we're doing a playtest and I want it more accurate than whatever I feel like.

The actual rules give nothing unless it's for killing/defeating/avoiding monsters and collecting treasure. By the book, they get nothing for the session, but I hate to do that.

Hmm.

On the one hand, there's something to be said for the psychological effect of intermittent reinforcement you get from the pure old school "xp for treasure and lesser xp for killing/tricking/defeating stuff" approach. Some sessions you get a nice score and some you don't. The ones where you don't are disappointing, but sharpen the players' hunger for the next score.

On the other hand, I can understand the frustration if they actually DID overcome some challenges, but didn't find any treasures or defeat any opponents, and thus aren't getting rewarded for what they did accomplish.

Given what you've expressed, and that limited two hour session timeframe you're playing in (especially since I'm guessing that you're not playing multiple times a week), I think it's probably worth coming up with some mystery/exploration xp awards. TBF, these are reasonably old-school; IIRC as early as 2nd Ed AD&D they were discussed as an official option, and certainly many non-D&D games had xp awards for other things too.

How about this? Why don't you total up the full XP in the adventure as-written for treasure and combat, and cut some chunk of the treasure out, reserving that XP for problem-solving awards. Divide that pool by as many awards as feels appropriate or likely, and then give those out when they accomplish a significant task (solving a mystery, getting an ally on their side by good roleplaying, finding a hidden back entrance into the dungeon, etc.). So, say it's a 1st level module with enough treasure and combat xp available to get 6 PCs to 2nd level, based on an xp required of 2,000 (standard Fighter in 1E or Basic). So 12,0000 total xp. Most of that will be treasure; usually 2/3 or more given AD&D or Basic having low xp awards for monsters. Say there's 2,000 xp available from monsters, 10,000 for treasure. If you cut the treasure in half, you can take the pool of 5,000 xp and make that the "other achievements" xp. Divide it by, say, 20, and on twenty occasions you can give a 250 xp prize to the group for getting something done. Some achievements might also be worth double awards.

These numbers are obviously rough estimates, but you can use whatever's there and divide appropriately. I think by taking the xp from the treasure, you largely retain the integrity of the playtest.

I remember reading an AngryGM article where he talked about doing these kind of standardized awards (he was writing in a 5th ed context and talked about making each award equal to a monster of CR equal to the PCs' level), and about a fun psychological trick of embodying them in white chips or marbles which he'd toss into a cup or chalice on the table at the time of the award. The players would get a rush of reward feelings whenever they heard that token hit the cup. I'm looking forward to trying that one out some time when I can play in person again.

 

[iserith]

Hmm.

On the one hand, there's something to be said for the psychological effect of intermittent reinforcement you get from the pure old school "xp for treasure and lesser xp for killing/tricking/defeating stuff" approach. Some sessions you get a nice score and some you don't. The ones where you don't are disappointing, but sharpen the players' hunger for the next score.

This is true in my experience. I'm watching this play out in real time with a West Marches campaign in which I am a player. Most of the players are used to "milestone XP" and now find themselves to be more motivated during play time to Get Stuff Done. They cover way more content per session than they ever did before and are having a blast. They frequently comment on how much they like standard XP and can't figure out why they never used it as DMs or players.

 

[Lanefan]

A few thoughts:

One thing to avoid (and you're already finding this out, just one session in!) is to be tempted to give out xp after every session. Why? Because of exactly what you've already hit: you feel pressured to give out xp for a session in which one could argue few if any xp were actually earned.

Instead, I'll keep notes on xp for monsters killed (I don't do xp-for-gp) and other significant events e.g. if a Thief overcomes a particularly difficult trap; and I'll give 'em out every few sessions when I think of it*. When I do give them out, however, I'll read out what they're for and who gets what for each encounter or event - and often the players will catch me as having missed something (I'm the first to admit my note-taking can be atrocious!) - such that each player ends up with a string of numbers to add up.

* - the exception is if I know someone's close to bumping I'll give out xp every in-game morning, for the previous adventuring day.

Characters get xp individually. Thus, if characters A, B and E took part in an encounter while C and D were elsewhere or asleep, then only A, B and E would get any xp for it. Obviously, this and other factors mean characters will bump at different times and at different rates leading to in-party level disparity being almost inevitable.

The PCs only get xp after a night's rest (or a long rest, in 5e terms).

At the end of each adventure I also give out what we call a 'dungeon bonus'. The theory behind this is that it in a small way makes up for the xp they'd have otherwise got from treasure; I rationalize it as being a cumulation of all the little bits of xp earned by simple day-to-day exploration, info gathering, and risk-taking during the adventure that otherwise wouldn't ever get recorded (your initial session sounds like it'd fall into this bucket). There's a very (very!) loosey-goosey formula I use for this but it usually comes down to a simple 'eye test' on my part: if the adventure already had gobs of xp the bonus is likely to be smaller than if an equally-risky adventure didn't provide much for xp, for example.

 

[rogueattorney]

I'd award no xp.

In "xp for gp" style play, advancement tends to go in fits and starts. It can go at a crawl until you hit a big score, and then "bam!"

I don't mind it as DM because it tends to keep the players "on task."

 

[Retreater]

I guess it's not essential to award after every session, but I would like to do that to show them how the system rewards risk and playstyle. For the past 9-ish months we've been playing 5e with a milestone system, so it's a very different expectation of play.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I'm coming off a "milestone-only" XP philosophy to playtest an OSR adventure, which has XP awards as a staple of the system (even down to classes needing more or less XP to go up in level based on their perceived power level).

And that variation in xp requirements by class effectively pegs the edition as 2nd or earlier. You need to have an appreciation for how the game was intended to be played at that time. It's not just a matter of plugging or unplugging one xp award system for another as if they ARE interchangeable. 1E and 2E gave out xp for two things - killing things, and successfully getting gold and other treasure back home securely. Why? Because the game was supposed to be like Conan the Barbarian who would... KILL things and end up with piles of gold which he then would gleefully but recklessly spend on ale and whores. And then go look for more things to kill. These were not game rule systems intended to tell complicated stories with drama, pathos, and emotional complexity. These were systems intended to "tell stories" of a continued cycle of gleeful, righteous slaughter and then wasting all your cash in celebration. Whatever you give out rewards for, you naturally prompt players to do more of.

If you were to stick faithfully to the xp award formulas for those "OSR" editions then PC's mostly should advance just as fast as they would in 3E, and probably just as fast as they would in 5E using milestones. If sticking to the old school reward formulae while seeking to get old school gameplay does NOT result in similarly steady gains in level, you're almost certainly doing it wrong somewhere. If you're going to use an "OSR" adventure but expect NON-OSR gameplay then you should be handing out xp rewards for the things you want to encourage from the players and their PC's. If what you want from players/PC's ISN'T just murder and looting then give xp for the things you DO want them to do.

And regardless of what xp award system you use - but ESPECIALLY if it's an OSR set of rules - then you should be adjusting that system and the resulting awards to what YOU want them to be as DM, not simply what "The Rules" say.

 

[iserith]

I guess it's not essential to award after every session, but I would like to do that to show them how the system rewards risk and playstyle. For the past 9-ish months we've been playing 5e with a milestone system, so it's a very different expectation of play.

I award it after every instance of it being earned and, unless level advancement is tied to downtime, they can level up on the spot if they have enough XP.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Remember, XP is (and has always been) a measure of what the characters learn from their experiences. It is not (and has never been) a reward for the players at the table.

If the characters are never in any danger during the session - if they never had to dodge a single sword thrust - then their combat ability has not improved in any way whatsoever.

 

[Lanefan]

Remember, XP is (and has always been) a measure of what the characters learn from their experiences. It is not (and has never been) a reward for the players at the table.

If the characters are never in any danger during the session - if they never had to dodge a single sword thrust - then their combat ability has not improved in any way whatsoever.

Agreed, but remember xp and levels represent more than just combat ability. They might not have had to dodge any sword thrusts but they might have still had to find a way across a dangerously-flooded river, get through the Bog of Bogginess without finding any quicksand the hard way, and get into the ruins without alerting any local wildlife and also without bringing any loose rocks down on their own heads.

There's potentially some xp in any of those things.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I strongly recommend this approach for awarding XP in balanced fashion across combat and non-combat encounters alike: Using Experience Points To Make D&D More Compelling