D&D 5E TCoE - Rogue's Steady Aim

[Xeviat]

Combined with Elven accuracy feat, isn’t this a significant damage boost for higher level rogues?

I'll crunch the numbers later if you want, but a base 65% hit chance is an 87.5% hit chance. The extra increase for double advantage isn't that high (95.88), but the crit jump might be (9.75 to 14.26). It's a gain, but not a huge gain. Definitely a strong combo, though.

 

[Charlaquin]

I get that the idea is supposed to be to help ranged rogues keep up with melee rogues on DPR, but... Should they even be able to? I’ve always viewed going melee as a risk-reward tradeoff for rogues. You’re squishy, and being in melee puts you at serious risk. But it also rewards you with consistently higher damage than you would get from hanging back and attacking from range. The safer tactic should be less offensively powerful.

I don’t think Steady Aim is overpowered by any means, and I will probably allow my players to take it if they want it, but I do lament how it kind of removes the only incentive to play melee-based rogues. It also kind of devalues the Litghtfoot Halfling’s Naturally Stealthy and Wood Elf’s Mask of the Wild for rogues.

 

[Xeviat]

I get that the idea is supposed to be to help ranged rogues keep up with melee rogues on DPR, but... Should they even be able to? I’ve always viewed going melee as a risk-reward tradeoff for rogues. You’re squishy, and being in melee puts you at serious risk. But it also rewards you with consistently higher damage than you would get from hanging back and attacking from range. The safer tactic should be less offensively powerful.

I don’t think Steady Aim is overpowered by any means, and I will probably allow my players to take it if they want it, but I do lament how it kind of removes the only incentive to play melee-based rogues. It also kind of devalues the Litghtfoot Halfling’s Naturally Stealthy and Wood Elf’s Mask of the Wild for rogues.

I think with the way advantage benefits sneak attack criticals (one roll needs to crit) over how TWFing benefits sneak attack attacks (first hit needs to crit), the ranged rogue might pull ahead in damage at the higher levels. At low levels, the chance to do 2d6 will outweigh the 1d6 from shortbow.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think with the way advantage benefits sneak attack criticals (one roll needs to crit) over how TWFing benefits sneak attack attacks (first hit needs to crit), the ranged rogue might pull ahead in damage at the higher levels. At low levels, the chance to do 2d6 will outweigh the 1d6 from shortbow.

Right, so like I said, it removes the incentive to play melee rogues.

 

[NotAYakk]

With a 50% hit chance, TWF gives 7.5% crits/attack, while Advantage gives 10%.

TWF delivers 1.0 static damage, Advantage delivers 0.75.
TWD delivers 1.1 weapon dice, advantage delivers 0.85 weapon dice.
TWF delivers 0.825 sneak attack dice, advantage delivers 0.85 sneak attack dice.

0.025 sneak attack dice is rarely as good as 0.25 static plus 0.25 weapon dice, even if you add in the bigger weapon die on advantage.

As hit rate goes up, the sneak attack gap grows to 0.05, but the static and weapon dice gap grows to 1.

As hit rate goes down, the sneak attack gap collapses. But at a 20 to hit, the TWF case still beats the Advantage choice.

So if you want to trade TWF for Advantage and win, you need something more; like a rapier vs a short sword and booming blade.

 

[Al2O3]

but for a rogue in a sniper nest, it ain't bad.

This was explicitly mentioned in one of the D&D Beyond YouTube videos about the UA as one case for using it.

about 1:20 into the video. Other thoughts and reasons are also discussed.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I get that the idea is supposed to be to help ranged rogues keep up with melee rogues on DPR, but... Should they even be able to? I’ve always viewed going melee as a risk-reward tradeoff for rogues. You’re squishy, and being in melee puts you at serious risk. But it also rewards you with consistently higher damage than you would get from hanging back and attacking from range. The safer tactic should be less offensively powerful.

I don’t think Steady Aim is overpowered by any means, and I will probably allow my players to take it if they want it, but I do lament how it kind of removes the only incentive to play melee-based rogues. It also kind of devalues the Litghtfoot Halfling’s Naturally Stealthy and Wood Elf’s Mask of the Wild for rogues.

Very much agree with this.

I see its purpose as primarily to speed up play over the Cunning Action - Hide method, which is nice, but I would prefer there were overall greater incentive for rogues to get in there with two sharp implements.

 

[squibbles]

Technically. Although I wouldn't allow 'Steady Aim' on the back of a galloping horse.

It worked for Genghis Khan.

Come on now, Genghis Khan only uses sneak attack as an army feature.

He doesn't need rules cheese to get advantage on a ranged attack.

 

[Don Durito]

I thought the purpose of steady aim was pretty clear to anyone who understands the game well - and Jeremy Crawford confirms that in his video.

My issue with this is that many DMs really don't understand the game that well and that the intention behind things often seem to be explained clearly only in additional material such as videos that only a relative minority of people will see.

 

[Charlaquin]

I thought the purpose of steady aim was pretty clear to anyone who understands the game well - and Jeremy Crawford confirms that in his video.

Care to elaborate for those of us who are a little leery of the feature?