D&D 5E How to have a constructive conversation with players?
- Thread starter Triumphruin
- Start date
TheSword
Legend
SPOILERS FOR BALDURS GATE 1 COMPUTER GAME
I said I’d have ago at a plot linking BG1 and Descent into Avernus. I think what I like about this is the opportunity to have characters from the first half keep popping up in Avernus. I’d be making the campaign a much higher level when they official campaign starts so it would need some serious re-writing, including the PCs taking the lead on Elturel defense - rather than just hiding in the ruins. And making Avernus a sandbox with more factions. While they are there, I’d definitely want a trip to some other layers of hell like Dis and Cania. Possibly triggered by plots from the BG1 section.
Anyway... here goes...
Prologue : Candlekeep (Level 1)
Explore your home, meet some NPCs, complete some tasks. Avoid two assassination attempts. Set out for the sword coast with the party’s mentor, Gorion. Ambushed in the night mid-escape by a large party of ogres and mercenaries. Led by a man in blackened armour. Gorion dies. The party flees clearly outmatched. No clue to who the murderers are but Gorion seemed to know them.
Chapter 1: Friendly Arm Inn (Level 2)
Travel east on Gorion’s advice to the Friendly Arm Inn, where assisted by the Harpers. Given the quest of sorting the Iron Crisis. (Or meet the Zhentarim along the way and given the quest by them). Travel East to Bereghost where the iron crisis is on everyone’s lips, along with discussions of banditry and War with Elturel to the East. Rumours suggest the bandits are working for the Zhentarim and if the trade routes can’t be protected Elturel has declared it will patrol the roads itself invading Sovereign land of Baldurs Gate to do so. the party escapes a bandit ambush or two. Find that the issue is originating from Nashkel in territory occupied by Elturel. Optional encounters include a vampire spawn from Elturel on the run from a hellrider who describes the blessed city, the wonder of the companion and the creed resolute. Various optional side quests to recover missing boots, find a missing messenger on the road, and clear a house overrun by spiders, and hunt down a mad Cyric priest.
Chapter 2: Nashkell Mines (level 3)
Investigating the mining town of Nashkel reveals increasing tensions between Baldur’s gate and Elturel. Including the Hellriders that protect that town. It seems Baldurs gate’s mercenary force the Flaming Fist have been roving further and further east under the justification of preventing banditry. Clues lead to the mines that support the town and a treacherous band of kobolds led by a half-orc banite priest name Mullahay. The cleric is working for the bandits plaguing the area and has been ‘poisoning’ the iron ore with a magical/alchemical mixture given by an unknown party disguising their work as that of demons. A secret escape tunnel brings the party out not far from Elturel and they are found by a Hell Rider patrol to the city, rewarded for their work and set to find out more by Captain Reya Mantlemorn. Optional quests to find the missing Hellrider Captain Brage and an artist named Prism who has stolen gems.
Chapter 3: The Bandit Camp (Level 4)
The PCs investigate the bandit camp hidden in the wood of sharp teeth, either by finding its location from the agent Tranzig, or by waiting in the areas bandits occupy and waiting to be attacked. They can infiltrate by pretending to join or by just attacking. The bandits are made up of two mercenary companies both pretending to be clients of the Zhentarim. Attacking both the caravan way that leads south to Amn and along the river leading to Elturel. The bandits are getting their money from a mercantile organization called the Iron Throne who it seems have a vested interest in strangling trade East and causing an iron shortage. The organization has a hidden base in the Cloakwood.
Chapter 4: The Cloakwood Mines (Level 5)
The iron throne’s base of operations is to the west in the cloakwood where an old dwarven mine is being used to extract unpolluted iron, for the Iron Throne. The base is surrounded by Wyvern nests and is under assault by druids, angry at their impact on the forest. In the mines below the Iron Thrones agent, Daveorn has made deals with servants of Dispater to manufacture the components for the alchemical iron pollutant as well as handling agents that deal with any problems to their schemes. He seems to answer directly to the leader of the western faction of the Iron Throne Reiltar based in Baldurs Gate.
Chapter 5: Baldur’s Gate (Level 6)
The city is abuzz with the iron shortage and war with Elturel. Scar the commander of the Flaming Fist asks for the heroes to investigate the seven suns coster which has been invaded by doppelgängers. Then to find out where townsfolk have been disappearing to (an ogre mage agent of Daveorn’s). Lastly to infiltrate the Iron Throne and investigate rumours of a weapon. A band of mercenaries at the top of the tower are claiming to be agents of the throne but actually work for a man named Saverok. He has headed to candlekeep with the rest of the leaders, to meet with the high Overseer of Elturel in an attempt to resolve the crisis.
Chapter 6: Candlekeep (Level 7)
Negotiations between the Iron Throne and Elturel being held at the neutral site of Candlekeep are a sham. While the leaders of the iron throne are actually negotiating in good faith. Kreeg is not, and a plan is afoot to assassinate the iron throne leaders and blame it on the PCs. He knows his city is doomed in a matter of weeks and has turned to Saverok in the hope of avoiding his fate. The party travel to Candlekeep where things feel very different. They are either provoked into killing the Iron Throne expedition or blamed for someone else doing it. Kreeg will then claim that the PCs were the cause of the war and indeed all the troubles on the sword coast. The PCs discover Thavius Kreeg is in league with Saverok and escape through the catacombs of Candlekeep in doing so they reveal their nature as children of Bhaal, god of murder. Kreeg escapes.
Chapter 7: Return to Baldurs Gate (level 8)
The city of Elturel is destroyed leaving only a crater behind and Saverok blames it on the party, claiming that they are agents of Amn and/or the Zhentarim who will be turning their attentions to Baldurs Gate next. One of the Grand Dukes has been assassinated - apparently by the Shadowthieves of Amn. Duke Entar head of the flaming fist is sick and one of Saverok’s toadies has been installed as steward. Saverok’s foresight and stockpiled Iron is seen as saving the city and he is to be made a grand duke. The Party are hunted by the flaming fist for murder and for the destruction of Elturel through unholy magic. The party have the opportunity to rescue Duke Entar from his doppelgänger doctor, and stop the assassination of the last two Grand Dukes - recovering invites to Saveroks ducal coronation. At the coronation Saverok announces he will be taking control of the flaming fist to secure the gates of the city against invaders and bandits (read refugees) from Elturel
He is about to be made grand duke and promises his support to defend Baldurs Gate from both refugees, Amn and the Zhentarim.
During the coronation he claims control over the Flaming fist and declares war with Amn, to the consternation of the other Dukes. Demanding a draft and an oath to serve Baldurs Gate be taken by all men and women over the age of 12. Saverok’s treachery is revealed and he is pursued into the catacombs beneath the city by the Party and defeated.
Chapter 8: Cult of Bhaal
Refugees swarm to Baldurs Gate with the destruction of Elturel causing massive overcrowding, hunger and disease. The surviving Hell Riders are a source of support for the refugees where the city struggles to cope. Saverok’s body has disappeared including his armour, sword and shield (The Shield of the Hidden Lord) The Flaming Fist are becoming ever more ruthless. Prophets of Bhaal walk the streets describing the end times when all the cities of the sword coast will be murdered and Bhaal will return in blood and fire. Several of the Hell Riders are being murdered and it is tracked back to the new cult of Bhaal that has sprung up following Saverok’s reveal. The Vampanthur Family - ostensibly trying to help the true citizens of Baldurs Gate are actually fueling the issue. This continues into a Tale of a Two Cities from Baldurs Gate : Descent.
I said I’d have ago at a plot linking BG1 and Descent into Avernus. I think what I like about this is the opportunity to have characters from the first half keep popping up in Avernus. I’d be making the campaign a much higher level when they official campaign starts so it would need some serious re-writing, including the PCs taking the lead on Elturel defense - rather than just hiding in the ruins. And making Avernus a sandbox with more factions. While they are there, I’d definitely want a trip to some other layers of hell like Dis and Cania. Possibly triggered by plots from the BG1 section.
Anyway... here goes...
Prologue : Candlekeep (Level 1)
Explore your home, meet some NPCs, complete some tasks. Avoid two assassination attempts. Set out for the sword coast with the party’s mentor, Gorion. Ambushed in the night mid-escape by a large party of ogres and mercenaries. Led by a man in blackened armour. Gorion dies. The party flees clearly outmatched. No clue to who the murderers are but Gorion seemed to know them.
Chapter 1: Friendly Arm Inn (Level 2)
Travel east on Gorion’s advice to the Friendly Arm Inn, where assisted by the Harpers. Given the quest of sorting the Iron Crisis. (Or meet the Zhentarim along the way and given the quest by them). Travel East to Bereghost where the iron crisis is on everyone’s lips, along with discussions of banditry and War with Elturel to the East. Rumours suggest the bandits are working for the Zhentarim and if the trade routes can’t be protected Elturel has declared it will patrol the roads itself invading Sovereign land of Baldurs Gate to do so. the party escapes a bandit ambush or two. Find that the issue is originating from Nashkel in territory occupied by Elturel. Optional encounters include a vampire spawn from Elturel on the run from a hellrider who describes the blessed city, the wonder of the companion and the creed resolute. Various optional side quests to recover missing boots, find a missing messenger on the road, and clear a house overrun by spiders, and hunt down a mad Cyric priest.
Chapter 2: Nashkell Mines (level 3)
Investigating the mining town of Nashkel reveals increasing tensions between Baldur’s gate and Elturel. Including the Hellriders that protect that town. It seems Baldurs gate’s mercenary force the Flaming Fist have been roving further and further east under the justification of preventing banditry. Clues lead to the mines that support the town and a treacherous band of kobolds led by a half-orc banite priest name Mullahay. The cleric is working for the bandits plaguing the area and has been ‘poisoning’ the iron ore with a magical/alchemical mixture given by an unknown party disguising their work as that of demons. A secret escape tunnel brings the party out not far from Elturel and they are found by a Hell Rider patrol to the city, rewarded for their work and set to find out more by Captain Reya Mantlemorn. Optional quests to find the missing Hellrider Captain Brage and an artist named Prism who has stolen gems.
Chapter 3: The Bandit Camp (Level 4)
The PCs investigate the bandit camp hidden in the wood of sharp teeth, either by finding its location from the agent Tranzig, or by waiting in the areas bandits occupy and waiting to be attacked. They can infiltrate by pretending to join or by just attacking. The bandits are made up of two mercenary companies both pretending to be clients of the Zhentarim. Attacking both the caravan way that leads south to Amn and along the river leading to Elturel. The bandits are getting their money from a mercantile organization called the Iron Throne who it seems have a vested interest in strangling trade East and causing an iron shortage. The organization has a hidden base in the Cloakwood.
Chapter 4: The Cloakwood Mines (Level 5)
The iron throne’s base of operations is to the west in the cloakwood where an old dwarven mine is being used to extract unpolluted iron, for the Iron Throne. The base is surrounded by Wyvern nests and is under assault by druids, angry at their impact on the forest. In the mines below the Iron Thrones agent, Daveorn has made deals with servants of Dispater to manufacture the components for the alchemical iron pollutant as well as handling agents that deal with any problems to their schemes. He seems to answer directly to the leader of the western faction of the Iron Throne Reiltar based in Baldurs Gate.
Chapter 5: Baldur’s Gate (Level 6)
The city is abuzz with the iron shortage and war with Elturel. Scar the commander of the Flaming Fist asks for the heroes to investigate the seven suns coster which has been invaded by doppelgängers. Then to find out where townsfolk have been disappearing to (an ogre mage agent of Daveorn’s). Lastly to infiltrate the Iron Throne and investigate rumours of a weapon. A band of mercenaries at the top of the tower are claiming to be agents of the throne but actually work for a man named Saverok. He has headed to candlekeep with the rest of the leaders, to meet with the high Overseer of Elturel in an attempt to resolve the crisis.
Chapter 6: Candlekeep (Level 7)
Negotiations between the Iron Throne and Elturel being held at the neutral site of Candlekeep are a sham. While the leaders of the iron throne are actually negotiating in good faith. Kreeg is not, and a plan is afoot to assassinate the iron throne leaders and blame it on the PCs. He knows his city is doomed in a matter of weeks and has turned to Saverok in the hope of avoiding his fate. The party travel to Candlekeep where things feel very different. They are either provoked into killing the Iron Throne expedition or blamed for someone else doing it. Kreeg will then claim that the PCs were the cause of the war and indeed all the troubles on the sword coast. The PCs discover Thavius Kreeg is in league with Saverok and escape through the catacombs of Candlekeep in doing so they reveal their nature as children of Bhaal, god of murder. Kreeg escapes.
Chapter 7: Return to Baldurs Gate (level 8)
The city of Elturel is destroyed leaving only a crater behind and Saverok blames it on the party, claiming that they are agents of Amn and/or the Zhentarim who will be turning their attentions to Baldurs Gate next. One of the Grand Dukes has been assassinated - apparently by the Shadowthieves of Amn. Duke Entar head of the flaming fist is sick and one of Saverok’s toadies has been installed as steward. Saverok’s foresight and stockpiled Iron is seen as saving the city and he is to be made a grand duke. The Party are hunted by the flaming fist for murder and for the destruction of Elturel through unholy magic. The party have the opportunity to rescue Duke Entar from his doppelgänger doctor, and stop the assassination of the last two Grand Dukes - recovering invites to Saveroks ducal coronation. At the coronation Saverok announces he will be taking control of the flaming fist to secure the gates of the city against invaders and bandits (read refugees) from Elturel
He is about to be made grand duke and promises his support to defend Baldurs Gate from both refugees, Amn and the Zhentarim.
During the coronation he claims control over the Flaming fist and declares war with Amn, to the consternation of the other Dukes. Demanding a draft and an oath to serve Baldurs Gate be taken by all men and women over the age of 12. Saverok’s treachery is revealed and he is pursued into the catacombs beneath the city by the Party and defeated.
Chapter 8: Cult of Bhaal
Refugees swarm to Baldurs Gate with the destruction of Elturel causing massive overcrowding, hunger and disease. The surviving Hell Riders are a source of support for the refugees where the city struggles to cope. Saverok’s body has disappeared including his armour, sword and shield (The Shield of the Hidden Lord) The Flaming Fist are becoming ever more ruthless. Prophets of Bhaal walk the streets describing the end times when all the cities of the sword coast will be murdered and Bhaal will return in blood and fire. Several of the Hell Riders are being murdered and it is tracked back to the new cult of Bhaal that has sprung up following Saverok’s reveal. The Vampanthur Family - ostensibly trying to help the true citizens of Baldurs Gate are actually fueling the issue. This continues into a Tale of a Two Cities from Baldurs Gate : Descent.
Triumphruin
Villager
While I understand and appreciate the general thrust of a lot of these posts, my main issue with the 'just make something people will enjoy' solution is my aforementioned lack of ability for coming up with and prepping content for my players at a rate anywhere sufficient to keep a group engaged for 4 hours a week. Like, is there a good method for going about doing that kind of thing, or am I simply terminally uncreative?
You mean in terms of adapting the module you've been running, or more broadly in terms of creating your own material? I'm running two campaigns that meet every-other week, for 3-4 hours a session, and I'm not having any problem with prep or running; I am, however, coming up with all the material on my own, and I have never been able to make sense in my head of any published adventure.
Triumphruin
Villager
I mean, I guess both?
Well, I'm obviously not the one to try to help you adapt the published adventure. As far as creating your own material, I think you're probably most likely to get to a quick start if you start pretty local and work outward. A little of the broader picture for context isn't bad, but if you know where the PCs are going to start you're probably going to want to start there, and put most of your detail work there. That said, I had a few broad strokes I applied to the larger world before I started the first campaign (the second, I set on the same continent, but I had more information).
If you're used to published adventures--especially the more modern ones--this is going to be a little difficult, but don't prep plots. When you prep, prep depth, not length--I think you're better off working out what is going on before the PCs insert themselves into the situation, and what will happen if they don't interfere, and why, than you are trying to prep for what you expect the PCs to do. I mean, at least sometimes you can prep encounters, but that doesn't seem to me to be what most DMs find difficult to prep.
As to starting a campaign, I've found the easiest way is to get the PCs into the same place at the same time and throw stinky stuff at the fan, then see what happens. Figure out where the stinky stuff is coming from and let the PCs find the problem and solve it. They'll figure out their own party dynamics in the process, IME.
If you're used to published adventures--especially the more modern ones--this is going to be a little difficult, but don't prep plots. When you prep, prep depth, not length--I think you're better off working out what is going on before the PCs insert themselves into the situation, and what will happen if they don't interfere, and why, than you are trying to prep for what you expect the PCs to do. I mean, at least sometimes you can prep encounters, but that doesn't seem to me to be what most DMs find difficult to prep.
As to starting a campaign, I've found the easiest way is to get the PCs into the same place at the same time and throw stinky stuff at the fan, then see what happens. Figure out where the stinky stuff is coming from and let the PCs find the problem and solve it. They'll figure out their own party dynamics in the process, IME.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
Just prepare outlines - the general "situation", list of names, places, who's who, a few maps and locations and... improv what's missing. 9/10 it works great.
And when you become more at ease with improv, when the players do something completely wild - either incredibly clever, or stupid, or totally out of the box thinking... you can enjoy it and just roll with it. It's amazing.
I'm still growing this skill, it's only the last few years I discovered that it could work, I only wish I had embraced it earlier.
And when you become more at ease with improv, when the players do something completely wild - either incredibly clever, or stupid, or totally out of the box thinking... you can enjoy it and just roll with it. It's amazing.
I'm still growing this skill, it's only the last few years I discovered that it could work, I only wish I had embraced it earlier.
TheSword
Legend
I don’t think you have to go a million miles out of your way creativity wise. The main things are to adopt the sandbox approach discussed with Eventyr and them come up with hooks to drive the story. There are lots of cool locations in Avernus with sloppy reasons to go to them.
My approach to the re-run will be to have a central story that advances the plot and provides XP level up milestones. And side quests that provide magic items. So for instance you may find the PCs follow the route of Mordenkainen -> Obelisk -> Spawning Trees —> Smiler -> Harumans Hill -> sibryex. But then decide you really enjoy the idea of them encountering Bel, or Tiamat... so have a powerful magic item(s) be the reward if the party go off that way on a side quest.
Very little creativity required from you to make Chapters 3, 4 & 5 work much better.
My approach to the re-run will be to have a central story that advances the plot and provides XP level up milestones. And side quests that provide magic items. So for instance you may find the PCs follow the route of Mordenkainen -> Obelisk -> Spawning Trees —> Smiler -> Harumans Hill -> sibryex. But then decide you really enjoy the idea of them encountering Bel, or Tiamat... so have a powerful magic item(s) be the reward if the party go off that way on a side quest.
Very little creativity required from you to make Chapters 3, 4 & 5 work much better.
Honestly if they are more interested in my game than the social gathering that's generally been a sign that they are going to be a troublesome player. People that want to be there to socialize generally are more team players. The guys that don't care about anything but the game usually just want things thier way.
this is how I've run my games for a long time. Two great things about this. I your worried about losing control or having brain lock make up a bunch of random encounters, maybe even have a module or a dungeon ready that can go anywhere, and when the players go totally off course and you have no idea what to do you can do that stuff while you figure it out. Also I've many times sat at my table and listened to the players talk about what they think is happening and decided they were right or took what they came up with and modified it a bit.
The other thing is the Players are deciding what to do so they never feel like you are railroading them. Players that feel like they have some control over the narrative are a lot easier to deal with than when they feel railroaded. I know when I play and I feel railroaded I intentionally start rocking the boat and causing as much Chaos as I can in an attempt to find a different opportunity. I think a lot of players do that.
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