D&D 5E The problem with 5e

[loverdrive]

Role playing doesn't matter what system you use. Every single one of them will require modifications or tweaks to fit you and your party.

Nope, many games just work right out of the box. None of them are rules-first, though.

 

[Puddles]

Several days later...

Haha, if this is not the raison d'etre of YouTube, what could be?

Awesome video.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Have you never seen a Die Hard movie? McClain should have been dead a dozen times over, wraps serious injuries that should take months of therapy and he's good to go. Or every movie/tv show where bullet wounds are healed by someone pulling the bullet out with a greasy pair of pliers they found lying on the floor*?

I know you're out of this conversation, so feel free to not respond, but I'd still like to point out that this is a very excellent example of how Hit Points work in older editions. In fact, I'm going to be referencing this example for years to come, because it's just that good.

When John McClane falls down, he gets hurt. HP damage. That damage then stays on him for the course of the movie. You can see the blood, the scrapes, and the dirty bandages. Over the course of a film, his current HP is steadily wearing down, but he doesn't heal on-screen. Wrapping a serious injury, or having a bullet removed with greasy pliers, doesn't restore any HP. The injury still exists, under the wrap; the bullet wound is still there, even with the bullet removed. And of course he can keep limping along, and firing his gun, because he still has a few HP left - which is established genre convention.

To contrast with later editions, playing that scenario out in 5E would have him hunker down for an hour, and then emerge with all of his wounds perfectly healed. Because, as someone else helpfully pointed out, the only mechanical representation of physical injury is a change in your HP total; if those wounds were still there, then we would see that reflected in the HP total, so the lack of HP damage proves that the physical injury does not exist.

 

[Oofta]

I know you're out of this conversation, so feel free to not respond, but I'd still like to point out that this is a very excellent example of how Hit Points work in older editions. In fact, I'm going to be referencing this example for years to come, because it's just that good.

When John McClane falls down, he gets hurt. HP damage. That damage then stays on him for the course of the movie. You can see the blood, the scrapes, and the dirty bandages. Over the course of a film, his current HP is steadily wearing down, but he doesn't heal on-screen. Wrapping a serious injury, or having a bullet removed with greasy pliers, doesn't restore any HP. The injury still exists, under the wrap; the bullet wound is still there, even with the bullet removed. And of course he can keep limping along, and firing his gun, because he still has a few HP left - which is established genre convention.

To contrast with later editions, playing that scenario out in 5E would have him hunker down for an hour, and then emerge with all of his wounds perfectly healed. Because, as someone else helpfully pointed out, the only mechanical representation of physical injury is a change in your HP total; if those wounds were still there, then we would see that reflected in the HP total, so the lack of HP damage proves that the physical injury does not exist.

My previous post explains my position.

 

[tetrasodium]

I know you're out of this conversation, so feel free to not respond, but I'd still like to point out that this is a very excellent example of how Hit Points work in older editions. In fact, I'm going to be referencing this example for years to come, because it's just that good.

When John McClane falls down, he gets hurt. HP damage. That damage then stays on him for the course of the movie. You can see the blood, the scrapes, and the dirty bandages. Over the course of a film, his current HP is steadily wearing down, but he doesn't heal on-screen. Wrapping a serious injury, or having a bullet removed with greasy pliers, doesn't restore any HP. The injury still exists, under the wrap; the bullet wound is still there, even with the bullet removed. And of course he can keep limping along, and firing his gun, because he still has a few HP left - which is established genre convention.

To contrast with later editions, playing that scenario out in 5E would have him hunker down for an hour, and then emerge with all of his wounds perfectly healed. Because, as someone else helpfully pointed out, the only mechanical representation of physical injury is a change in your HP total; if those wounds were still there, then we would see that reflected in the HP total, so the lack of HP damage proves that the physical injury does not exist.

Thank you. Adding to my point earlier about gm narration like all the times mcclain would be dead in the die hard movies being different from the hitpoints themselves. It doesn't matter if you apparently fall 122m in 6 seconds(thanks google) If the gm declares that there are 4 rounds of stuff going on during the fall & then rolls 4d6 fall damage the difference is narration. The same applies when I'm feeling especially gritty & narrate limbs being severed, bones broken, organs getting crushed, & so on... it's still just 4hp or whatever of damage.

 

[el-remmen]

In D&D, I often hear DMs saying they feel the need to make every battle deadly just to keep it interesting. If it isn't deadly, it is boring. These DMs can benefit from the lessons of the comics, and realize that there are ways to win and lose without it being about life and death.

Encounter 1: 2 Goblins guard the gate. Can the PCs deal with them before they raise the alarm? If not, they get a tougher encounter.
Encounter 2: Some goblins and a worg are arguing over which of them gets to eat the prisoners. The PCs have to act quickly to free the prisoners before they are killed. Deception and might are both potential options, here.
Encounter 3: The PCs spot the returning tribe and are surprised to see that there are far too many goblins to fight. They have 3 rounds to get themselves, and the rescued prisoners, into one (or more) of the alternate escape routes.
Encounter 4: Chase seen through the alternate exit, with the PCs figuring out how to cross barriers and create more barriers behind them.
Encounter 5: They exit from the back entrance to the lair and decide whether to flee by taking sleds down a mountainside, running along an icy trail, or taking the canoes into the river that runs along the mountain (hint, upcoming waterfall).
Encounter 6: A Chase scene battle in their selected escape route, with goblins trying to stop their escape more than trying to kill them, and the PCs being better off focusing on stopping the goblins from slowing their escape than trying to kill as many goblins as possible.

I just wanted to say that this is exactly the kind of stuff that I try to do with the vast majority of encounters. Interesting environments that both heroes and foes can engage with, goals/stakes outside of "just kill each other," and playing foes with the requisite cunning or intelligence are the reason why I have a hard time when people talk about a long combat being a slog. . .

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I just wanted to say that this is exactly the kind of stuff that I try to do with the vast majority of encounters. Interesting environments that both heroes and foes can engage with, goals/stakes outside of "just kill each other," and playing foes with the requisite cunning or intelligence are the reason why I have a hard time when people talk about a long combat being a slog. . .

I am not as good at this as I should be.

I planned an encounter in which there are winches that open gates that have more enemies behind them.

was thinking contests to stop the cranking. Also thought about telegraphing a ballista getting loaded to see if a fight over bolts or levers might develop.

but that is all timed penalties to fighting. Would love a book full of ideas for this stuff to riff on.

 

[el-remmen]

I am not as good at this as I should be.

Most of us aren't. I plan encounters this way, they don't always work out - and sometimes that's great and sometimes I forget some detail and it is not as great as it might have been. But that is true of all kinds of aspects of running a complex game.

Anyway, a Book of Encounters (kinda like the old school Book of Lairs) would be awesome. I should write one.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Most of us aren't. I plan encounters this way, they don't always work out - and sometimes that's great and sometimes I forget some detail and it is not as great as it might have been. But that is true of all kinds of aspects of running a complex game.

Anyway, a Book of Encounters (kinda like the old school Book of Lairs) would be awesome. I should write one.

Hell yeah. Something like that would sell. And could be setting agnostic or almost game agnostic with guidelines about how to populate it with creatures...

or go all in and put orcs and slimes and spider whatever...

 

[Oofta]

Hell yeah. Something like that would sell. And could be setting agnostic or almost game agnostic with guidelines about how to populate it with creatures...

or go all in and put orcs and slimes and spider whatever...

Slimy orc spiders may now be making an appearance in my next game. Kind of like the orc version of a drider but dripping with an acid sting instead of poison.