D&D 5E Can We Come Up With Better (but still simple) Movement Rules?

[DND_Reborn]

EDIT: Here is the post to my current idea: D&D 5E - Can We Come Up With Better (but still simple) Movement Rules?

UPDATE: Here's what I am thinking for Running:

Notes: I elected against including disadvantage on ability checks mostly because running and jumping could easily happen in the same turn (i.e. the running long jump), and it wouldn't make sense if a check was require for the jump.

I was thinking about adding this, but it seems too fiddly:
OPTIONAL: You also have disadvantage on ability checks that do not include proficiency in the Athletics skill.

Another option is to use the rule for fast movement penalizing Wisdom (Perception) tests (PHB . 182):

and using something similar for Running.

The limitation on the Dash action under Chases (DMG p. 252) limits how long you can run quickly, as doing so would require the Dash action as well.

Limitations:
I could easily come up with rules for limitations on how long you can run, etc. but 5E has no such rules for limitations on special types of movement (how long you can climb or swim, for instance). We all know 5E is purposefully negligent about such things, however, so for the time being I am ignoring them as well and leaving it up to DM fiat.
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Below is the original post:


The recent thread on Chases got me thinking about a pet peeve of mine in 5E: movement or speed.

I know 5E is designed with the idea of rules that are as simple as possible and at least can represent what they are supposed to cover. The idea of being able to move during a round and having your speed used is reasonable in 5E, so this isn't a thread-bash against 5E in that respect.

But, in the spirit of the chase, there should be a way to get more "speed" out of movement. Having a simple rule for things like sprinting in a contest would be nice. However, we still want to keep things relatively simple.

For a point of comparison, I did track and field in high school and college. I was never fast like a lot of people, but I was ok and a good support to help fill out the field, so to say. My personal bests were:

100-meter: 11.5 seconds (equates to speed of 85.6 using both a move and dash action over 2 rounds)
1/4-mile: 52.5 seconds (equates to speed of 75.4 using both a move and dash action over 9 rounds)
mile: 4 minutes, 53 seconds (equates to speed of 54.1 using both a move and dash action over 49 rounds)
10K (just over 6.2 miles): 42.5 minutes (equates to a speed of 38.6 using both a move and dash action over 425 rounds)

Note: I think all the math is right, but if anyone checks and finds an error let me know.

Now, assuming my Speed is 30 (like most medium-sized creatures), I couldn't do any of these. I definitely would have proficiency in Athletics given my history of sports and fitness (more so in my younger days LOL!), but my STR then (at BEST) might be 12 so only +1 modifier and my CON modifier maybe a +2 or 3 (maybe...) back then.

So, I am wondering if we can do more with the Dash action? Perhaps a STR (Athletics) check to increase speed by x2 or x3 normal speed?

For easy reference, here is the wording of the Dash Action:

Maybe instead of the increase equals your speed, make it:
If you make a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check the increase equals double your speed, DC 15 for triple, and DC 20 for quadruple? So, if your speed is 30 and you make a DC 20 check, you get your normal move of 30 and your dash of 120, for a total of 150. Not quite enough for my speed while sprinting, but close.

I know speed increases for Barbarians, Monks, and Rogue's Cunning Action Dash can all factor in, but I would like those to be "extras" not part of the base rule.

Any thoughts?

Changes in other forms of movement might come later, but this is a start. If it becomes too complex, it gets sacked.

EDIT: should an increase to speed using Dash be based on STR, DEX, or proficiency bonus (in Athletics, perhaps?)?

 

[loverdrive]

Not gonna criticize the implementation, but I think there's a more fundamental problem.

Movement hardly matters outside of chases. And maybe that weird luchador build.

 

[billd91]

The trouble with trying to match something like a sprint speed is that's in a straight line or gentle curve, very much not just getting extra feet to move in any direction as with movement in 5e in general, including the Dash action. 3e had sprinting in a straight line - you might consider adding a Sprint action and adapting some variation of 3e's version.

Alternatively, I'd probably leave Dash alone in the main, but maybe add the potential to make a Strength (Athletics) check to add feet by hitting a certain DC. Something like DC 15 for 5', DC 20 for 10', and maybe max out with DC 25 for 15'. 3x and 4x for a check seems a bit much to add, if you ask me.

 

[aco175]

I would be careful when adding more rolls or PC advantages. If the fighter can suddenly spring 100ft this round to reach the bad guy and not have any penalties like disadvantage on attacks, they will do it. By changing the rule with a athletics check or such, you add another roll and add to combat time. Even if the monster can do the same, the added rolls by the DM and players will start to add up.

Remember that we are not at school with my Nikes and gym shorts running on a track. Generally movement in D&D is in armor and tactically moving forward and back watching for danger and such as you engage. My best time running the 2-mile PT test was a lot better than assaulting an enemy position wearing combat gear.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Not gonna criticize the implementation, but I think there's a more fundamental problem.

Movement hardly matters outside of chases. And maybe that weird luchador build.

LOL criticism is welcome!

But you are correct, other than flanking 5E has little in way of tactical movement options. And flanking isn't well thought of by many groups.

If you have ideas to address other issues, please contribute.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I would be careful when adding more rolls or PC advantages. If the fighter can suddenly spring 100ft this round to reach the bad guy and not have any penalties like disadvantage on attacks, they will do it. By changing the rule with a athletics check or such, you add another roll and add to combat time. Even if the monster can do the same, the added rolls by the DM and players will start to add up.

Remember that we are not at school with my Nikes and gym shorts running on a track. Generally movement in D&D is in armor and tactically moving forward and back watching for danger and such as you engage. My best time running the 2-mile PT test was a lot better than assaulting an enemy position wearing combat gear.

I agree, which is why I want something effective and simple (if possible!).

And although I also completely get the differences in combat vs. non-combat and ideal conditions, movement in 5E is STILL lacking IMO.

I've considered other options such as more of a full-action movement, but even with such optional rules as I present the fighter still can't attack as they are using the dash action (or must use action surge, which IMO is something outside the norm, like the Monk's speed or Cunning Action). I would like to come up with something that works within the norm and understand fringe cases are, indeed, outliers.

 

[aco175]

Would a simple rule like; You can add half your movement speed each turn you take dash action. This allows you more distance when you use your movement and dash to double move. It represents the extra speed taking your full turn to move.

I wouldn't even add con checks or Athletics checks to continue longer or such. I would just keep it simple.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Would a simple rule like; You can add half your movement speed each turn you take dash action. This allows you more distance when you use your movement and dash to double move. It represents the extra speed taking your full turn to move.

I wouldn't even add con checks or Athletics checks to continue longer or such. I would just keep it simple.

Something along those lines I think would be good. I'll have to look at what normal speeds would happen with that in mind. Adding in the Chase Rules limits (3+CON mod dashes max) might work well. It would also lend to the idea of acceleration, but in truth when sprinting you reach max speed in less than 6 seconds.

 

[embee]

Not gonna criticize the implementation, but I think there's a more fundamental problem.

Movement hardly matters outside of chases. And maybe that weird luchador build.

I have to agree. Movement rates have no meaning once combat begins. According to the PHB, "In combat, characters and Monsters are in constant motion, often using Movement and Position to gain the upper hand."

Excuse me?

Unless you use optional flanking rules, it's Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots because no one wants to either risk an OA or burn an action to disengage to avoid the OA.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I have to agree. Movement rates have no meaning once combat begins. According to the PHB, "In combat, characters and Monsters are in constant motion, often using Movement and Position to gain the upper hand."

Excuse me?

Unless you use optional flanking rules, it's Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots because no one wants to either risk an OA or burn an action to disengage to avoid the OA.

Yeah, speed was only the first thing I wanted to address, because I was hoping a remedy would be simple (relatively).

So, the question is, how can we expand to allow Movement and Position to actually become a factor and get away from Rock 'Em Sock 'Em?

FWIW, the Cinematic Initiative Variant I developed and have been using recently helps a lot. Players see how movement can affect when the get to attack and thus affects the outcome of battle in a meaningful way.