The mandalorian [Spoilers]

[Marandahir]

Yeah. It's not so much looking for loopholes, it's how to you get Bo Katan to view it as honorable and worthy of a fight. That's who you have to convince.

Back in Star Wars Rebels Season 3, Sabine Wren took the Darksaber from Darth Maul's lair on Dathomir (Maul had won it in single-combatant mortal combat in The Clone Wars Season 5 from Pre Vizsla, the leader of Death Watch and heir of the blade's creator, Tar Vizsla (and voiced by Jon Favreau to boot). Sabine had not "won" the saber, and felt extremely wrong learning to use it and resisted her mentor Kanan's push to use the blade as a symbol to reunite Mandalore behind her (even if the Mandalorian Defenders of Concord Dawn were on board with the idea). In Rebels season 4, Sabine yielded the blade over to Bo-Katan Kryze saying that Bo was the leader Mandalore needed, with the support of several Mandalorian clans.

And that's where the Mandalorian story ended, with Bo-Katan trying to reunify Mandalore under her rule. We know from The Mandalorian that this… did not go as planned. Moff Gideon got the Darksaber, Mandalore was "turned to glass" and the people shattered and divided.

I strongly believe that Bo-Katan Kryze feels that because she didn't "earn" the saber in the proper way, the story wasn't strong enough to hold Mandalore together against the might of the Empire. And to reunite Mandalore again, she'd need the actual story to do so.

Note also that Bo rejected Maul's claim to the Saber and all Mandalore at the time of The Clone Wars Season 5, saying that an outsider would never rule Mandalore. So to Bo, there are two rules here, it's gotta be a true child of Mandalore, and it's gotta be won in fair combat. I'm not sure she can accept Din's leadership either from that stance; note that she refused to accept Boba Fett as Mandalorian given that he's a clone of a foundling. She might think similarly to Minister Almec, who said that Jango Fett is no Mandalorian (he seemed to be looking down on Foundlings as not true Mandalorians, only counting those born of Mandalorian heritage with the northern-European look of fair skin/blond-or-red hair/blue-or-green eyes). She did accept Sabine's mother Ursa Wren has an ally in the Siege of Mandalore, as well as new ally Koska Reeves, both of whom have dark skin and dark hair, and were likely not born of the Mandalore core stock like she was. But perhaps she has her own rules about who is Mandalorian and who isn't… does Din count? We'll have to find out.

 

[pukunui]

@Marandahir: I have made similar points earlier in the thread. I took the differences of opinion as more of a class thing rather than a “race” one.

That is, Almec and probably Bo-Katan have an aristocratic bent to them, and they undoubtedly look down on foundlings (and clones of foundling) as not being true Mandalorians because they weren’t born into a clan or whatever, rather than because their skin/eye/hair color is different.

That said, I’m pretty sure Clan Wren is meant to be an old established clan (who were vassals of Clan Vizsla), so despite their having a slight Asian appearance, I think they would count as being true Mandalorians. Sabine’s mother was a countess, after all.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Sabine didn’t earn the darksaber properly at first. It wasn’t till her mother took it off her and gave it to Gar Saxon, whom Sabine then defeated in hand-to-hand combat, that she actually earned it properly. But then she gave it to Bo-Katan.

I am thinking that Moff Gideon may have duelled Bo-Katan and won the darksaber off her around the time of the Great Purge.

 

[Marandahir]

@Marandahir: I have made similar points earlier in the thread. I took the differences of opinion as more of a class thing rather than a “race” one.

That is, Almec and probably Bo-Katan have an aristocratic bent to them, and they undoubtedly look down on foundlings (and clones of foundling) as not being true Mandalorians because they weren’t born into a clan or whatever, rather than because their skin/eye/hair color is different.

That said, I’m pretty sure Clan Wren is meant to be an old established clan (who were vassals of Clan Vizsla), so despite their having a slight Asian appearance, I think they would count as being true Mandalorians. Sabine’s mother was a countess, after all.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Sabine didn’t earn the darksaber properly at first. It wasn’t till her mother took it off her and gave it to Gar Saxon, whom Sabine then defeated in hand-to-hand combat, that she actually earned it properly. But then she gave it to Bo-Katan.

I am thinking that Moff Gideon may have duelled Bo-Katan and won the darksaber off her around the time of the Great Purge.

Sorry, the thread's gotten long enough now that I can't read every page anymore if I get too far behind. Too busy.

Needless to ssay, I think I agree with you.

 

[Dire Bare]

@Marandahir: I have made similar points earlier in the thread. I took the differences of opinion as more of a class thing rather than a “race” one.

That is, Almec and probably Bo-Katan have an aristocratic bent to them, and they undoubtedly look down on foundlings (and clones of foundling) as not being true Mandalorians because they weren’t born into a clan or whatever, rather than because their skin/eye/hair color is different.

That said, I’m pretty sure Clan Wren is meant to be an old established clan (who were vassals of Clan Vizsla), so despite their having a slight Asian appearance, I think they would count as being true Mandalorians. Sabine’s mother was a countess, after all.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Sabine didn’t earn the darksaber properly at first. It wasn’t till her mother took it off her and gave it to Gar Saxon, whom Sabine then defeated in hand-to-hand combat, that she actually earned it properly. But then she gave it to Bo-Katan.

I am thinking that Moff Gideon may have duelled Bo-Katan and won the darksaber off her around the time of the Great Purge.

Foundlings seem to be honored by Mandalorian culture, none of the Mandos in the series have had an issue with Djarin's foundling status. They are wary of him being a foundling of the Deathwatch, but not of his foundling status itself. Clones on the other hand . . . .

Also Fett himself doesn't claim foundling or Mandalorian status . . . although considering his father Jango was a Mandalorian foundling, Boba probably could make that claim. How would other Mandalorians feel about a clone foundling? Perhaps we'll find out in Season 3, or in "The Book of Boba Fett".

 

[MarkB]

Seen on Facebook, too good not to share.

 

[Marandahir]

Foundlings seem to be honored by Mandalorian culture, none of the Mandos in the series have had an issue with Djarin's foundling status. They are wary of him being a foundling of the Deathwatch, but not of his foundling status itself. Clones on the other hand . . . .

Also Fett himself doesn't claim foundling or Mandalorian status . . . although considering his father Jango was a Mandalorian foundling, Boba probably could make that claim. How would other Mandalorians feel about a clone foundling? Perhaps we'll find out in Season 3, or in "The Book of Boba Fett".

I'd argue that Boba is quite a bit different from say, Rex or Echo or Cody. They may all share the same face and voice, but Boba was unaltered, and raised by Jango in the Way until his father's untimely death, so he may be able to stake such a claim. Hard sell to get anyone else to believe that, given that Clones were so well known that anyone looking or sounding like Jango would be considered a clone soldier rather than the son of a foundling.

Do Foundling's children get to be Mandos as well? Or are they supposed to adopt other foundlings into the Way, like Din did with Grogu?

Also, are there any foundlings that aren't Children of the Watch? I don't think we meet any such besides potentially Boba Fett. It's very possible that in Canon, Jaster Mereel could be Death Watch. In the old Legends, Mereel fought against Death Watch, but in canon, the factions seemed to be Death Watch and the pacifist followers of House Kryze, and I don't thin Mereel as he was written in Legends fits into either faction cleanly…

 

[Wishbone]

Binging the second season after it all aired and it seems more like a bunch of backdoor pilots for the new Disney+ franchises than the first season did. Reminds me a lot of Iron Man 2 where it seems to exist to tie-in properties instead of existing as a thing that can stand on its own.

I haven't kept up with the Extended Universe post-continuity reboot and its strange to see all these characters I don't know much about making an appearance. Beyond stunt casting I don't understand the point of it to serve a larger story?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Binging the second season after it all aired and it seems more like a bunch of backdoor pilots for the new Disney+ franchises than the first season did. Reminds me a lot of Iron Man 2 where it seems to exist to tie-in properties instead of existing as a thing that can stand on its own.

I haven't kept up with the Extended Universe post-continuity reboot and its strange to see all these characters I don't know much about making an appearance. Beyond stunt casting I don't understand the point of it to serve a larger story?

To me, the show watches just fine with absolutely nothing outside. A new character is a new character. Why does it matter that they've been in a Star Wars before?

 

[Wishbone]

To me, the show watches just fine with absolutely nothing outside. A new character is a new character. Why does it matter that they've been in a Star Wars before?

Because the show felt like it was becoming reliant on narrative shorthand that required pointing to external sources to appreciate the character, which I thought showed a disturbing lack of faith in the ability of The Mandalorian to stand as its own thing. Every named character introduced this season felt like a diversion intended to push us towards watching a new show on Disney+.

Gina Carano's character in the first season felt like the start of this—sure it is probably safe to assume most people watching have seen A New Hope so the destruction of Alderaan has some resonance. But when I get to Rosario Dawson as Ahsoka Tano showing up—a character I have a vague memory of from an animated movie and TV show I never saw with all I know about her being that she was Anakin's apprentice—and it felt like they were introducing characters with the intention of showing us their valuable intellectual properties so we'd be inclined to explore those properties. Is mentioning Admiral Thrawn absent context really meant to have resonance with anyone who isn't vaguely familiar with whatever version of the blue Chiss they're using now?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because the show felt like it was becoming reliant on narrative shorthand that required pointing to external sources to appreciate the character, which I thought showed a disturbing lack of faith in the ability of The Mandalorian to stand as its own thing. Every named character introduced this season felt like a diversion intended to push us towards watching a new show on Disney+.

Gina Carano's character in the first season felt like the start of this—sure it is probably safe to assume most people watching have seen A New Hope so the destruction of Alderaan has some resonance.

Her home was destroyed. What more do you need?

But when I get to Rosario Dawson as Ahsoka Tano showing up—a character I have a vague memory of from an animated movie and TV show I never saw with all I know about her being that she was Anakin's apprentice—and it felt like they were introducing characters with the intention of showing us their valuable intellectual properties so we'd be inclined to explore those properties.

Why? You really don’t see the gap in reasoning, here? There isn’t anything obvious between premise and conclusion. I’m asking you to fill in the blank space with reasoning of some kind.

Is mentioning Admiral Thrawn absent context really meant to have resonance with anyone who isn't vaguely familiar with whatever version of the blue Chiss they're using now?

Why on Earth would the person the newly introduced character is looking for need to have any particular resonance? Not every question a story raises should be answered. She is on a mission. It points toward her unwillingness to train Grogu, and suggests that his anger and fear aren’t the only reason.

I really think you’re just being cynical about a shared universe acting like things exist in the same universe.