D&D 5E Combat & Etherealness

[Flamestrike]

No, not in my copy of the DMG, which is from FG, and therefore is supposed to be updated will all erratta.

Here's the full quote;

No, you're parsing the text wrong:

Normally, creatures in the Border Ethereal can't attack creatures on the overlapping plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible and utterly silent to someone on the overlapping plane, and solid objects on the overlapping plane don't hamper the movement of a creature in the Border Ethereal.

The exceptions are certain magical effects (including anything made of magical force) and living beings. This makes the Ethereal Plane ideal for reconnaissance, spying on opponents, and moving around without being detected. The Ethereal Plane also disobeys the laws of gravity; a creature there can move up and down as easily as walking.

If I parsed the text the way you are parsing the texts (read those two bolded lines in isolation), then two exceptions can 'attack' things in the Ethereal plane:

1) Magical force effects, and
2) Living beings (non undead or constructs)

In other words, your parsing leads to a situation where one doesn't even need a magical force effect to attack someone in the Ethereal plane, if one is a 'living being'. Harry the living human Monk can punch an Ethereal creature in the face from the Material plane for example, if I used your parsing of that text.

The exceptions in the text above, refer to living creatures and magical force effects blocking movement on the Border ethereal (the exceptions in the first line of the second paragraph refer to the second part of the first paragraph only) as reflected elsewhere in the wall of force, forcecage and similar spells.

The exceptions (in the first sentence of the second paragraph re living creatures and magical force effects) do not apply to the first sentence of the first paragraph, which prohibits attacks being made from the material to the ethereal (full stop).

 

[Flamestrike]

Says the overlapping plane. The PM and BE overlap but do not touch, youre either in one or the other but not both. Correct?

The BE is still the Ethereal.

You're still in the Ethereal, just near where it borders a coterminous plane (usually the MP).

 

[R_J_K75]

The BE is still the Ethereal.

You're still in the Ethereal, just near where it borders a coterminous plane (usually the MP).

So in your previous post you said...

The exceptions in the text above, refer to living creatures and magical force effects blocking movement on the Border ethereal (the second part of the first paragraph) as spelled in out in the wall of force, forcecage and similar spells.

Basically this says a living creature can enter the ethereal and cast a force spell which will hinder an ethereal creature and an ethereal creature cannot pass through a living creature thats on the ethereal?

 

[Flamestrike]

So in your previous post you said...

Basically this says a living creature can enter the ethereal and cast a force spell which will hinder an ethereal creature and an ethereal creature cannot pass through a living creature thats on the ethereal?

There are certain force effects (forcecage, wall of force and tiny hut) that expressly extend into the Ethereal when cast on the PM. The spells provide details.

Presuming I can see into the Ethereal (via True sight or true seeing) I dont even have to be in the Ethereal to target an Ethereal creature with Forcecage. I can do it from the Material plane (see the Forcecage spell for details).

But if I'm on the material plane and I want to hit them with (say) a Magic Missile or and Eldritch Blast (both of which deal force damage) I need to enter the Ethereal plane in order to do it.

Force effects (and living beings) block movement on the Ethereal only.

 

[LordEntrails]

So if a ghost is travelling in the border ethereal and comes into contact with a wall of force on that was cast on the PM the wall of force prevents the ghost from passing through it even though its on the ethereal plane? This doesnt make much sense. Why would a force spell be able to penetrate into the ethereal from the prime, because Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford just decided so?

Yes, many force spells also effect the ethereal plane. Because walls of force always (?) have? Because there are practical gaming reasons to having a way to prevent etherealness (which is relatively common) creatures from being able to go everywhere?

Think about it, there has to be a way to prevent spies and enemies from penetrating the most secure fortifications.

 

[LordEntrails]

What does the "and living creatures" refer to?

 

[Flamestrike]

What does the "and living creatures" refer to?

You cant ethereally travel through living beings (larger that single celled organisms) while on the Ethereal plane. You harmlessly stop when you hit one.

Navigating a Jungle would be a nightmare (and likely impossible). You could always simply fly over it, or (maybe even under it).

Mundane protections from most divinations include lead (blocks most of them). Then simply also encase your lair in thick vines (needs to cover the whole thing) or a thin layer of some kind of Ooze and you're protected from ethereal travel as well.

Hallow also does the trick as a magical protection, as does MK's private sanctum from memory.

 

[Charlaquin]

Pretty sure that in order for either to physically attack one another they have to both be on the same plane. IIRC creatures on the border ethereal can see into the prime material and creatures on the prime material can see creatures in the border ethereal, some attacks such as a ghosts aging effect may penetrate the prime material from the border ethereal. Its been a really long time since I've thought about it and things may have changed in 5E, but think Im close.

I think a creature needs ethereal sight to see one plane from the other. Some abilities also allow a creature to be seen from the other plane.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think it's right to make that ... assumption? Normally, we use the general rules to decide a rule, and then specific rules override general when their is a conflict.

The rule from the DMG I stated above says that certain magical force effects can effect BE. But, to me, the problem is it doesn't say which magical effects. Are we to assume only those magical effects that specifically state they can, can? So in other words, what I quoted really isn't a general rule, but rather a statement indicating their are specific rules elsewhere?

Yes

 

[Benjamin Olson]

In 5e if a spell effects the ethereal plane from the prime material plane it will explicitly say so, unless it is a spell which can more generally cross planes (ie: Sending).

On a related note, does blindsight let you see ethereal creatures?

No. They are on a different plane of existence. You need truesight to see into it.

Blindsight is generally used to represent that a creatures other senses are able to give them the equivalent of vision without relying on sight up to x distance, and since creatures in the ethereal plane are not heard, smelled, touched, or tasted by creatures in the prime material plane, it wouldn't make sense for blindsight to apply.