D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Maxperson]

Gobliniods and orcs have some make babies, they are hard to snuff out.

They also have, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

Miniotaurs are really big.

They have, "It's the same one really. elite warriors, and foightin'"

Giants are REALLY REALLY big.

These guys have, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

Gnome towns are invisible. Like real invisible.

And also, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

Kobolds suck up to something really powerful

And of course, "It's the same one really. Training armies, spellcasters, and foightin'"

Tieflings live with humans

This isn't even really a race. It's just some scattered individuals.

Tritons live in the "hard to invade" underwaters.

And......, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

So basically they're all just Elves, Dwarves, etc. with a schtick, just like Elves and Dwarves.

Halflings are the only truly different race flavor wise and that's really cool.

 

[cbwjm]

Once every 20 years sounds like and eladrin feywild phasing thing or a gnome illusion thing. I don't think theblucky trait of halflings does anything to really protect them from being raided. Orcs might think they're slippery or that they sometimes have a David vs. Goliath effect but that luck isn't hiding their village. I'm also very drunk so I may have missed the argument here.

 

[Charlaquin]

Once every 20 years sounds like and eladrin feywild phasing thing or a gnome illusion thing. I don't think theblucky trait of halflings does anything to really protect them from being raided.

Well, Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes says it does, but I agree with @doctorbadwolf that most of the lore in that book is garbage anyway.

Orcs might think they're slippery or that they sometimes have a David vs. Goliath effect but that luck isn't hiding their village. I'm also very drunk so I may have missed the argument here.

My argument is that a group of halfling minutemen can repel a much better armed and armored invading force with a combination of unorthodox tactics, gumption, and preternatural good luck. @Minigiant’s argument seems to be that this somehow makes them “like NPCs.”

 

[cbwjm]

Well, Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes says it does, but I agree with @doctorbadwolf that most of the lore in that book is garbage anyway.

My argument is that a group of halfling minutemen can repel a much better armed and armored invading force with a combination of unorthodox tactics, gumption, and preternatural good luck. @Minigiant’s argument seems to be that this somehow makes them “like NPCs.”

There is a lot of lore in that book I tend to ignore, especially when it conflicts with a setting such as all the corellon stuff (and actually all the elf lore) when it comes to dragonlance or dark sun.

You can definitely use the lucky ability of halflings as a world building thing, those halflings seem to be squirrelly, my tendency is that they have what would essentially be a symbiotic relationship with humans. They may even make up units of slingers (old lore where they had bonuses to slings and thrown weapons) in human armies.

 

[Minigiant]

They also have, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

They have, "It's the same one really. elite warriors, and foightin'"

These guys have, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

And also, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

And of course, "It's the same one really. Training armies, spellcasters, and foightin'"

This isn't even really a race. It's just some scattered individuals.

And......, "It's the same one really. Making quallity and possibly magical arms, training armies, spellcasters, and elite warriors, and foightin'"

So basically they're all just Elves, Dwarves, etc. with a schtick, just like Elves and Dwarves.

Halflings are the only truly different race flavor wise and that's really cool.

Not really.

Your missing the point that these races don't have the settlements and kingdoms to equip and feed standing armies. They are mostly tribal, rather nomadic, and scavenge over crafting quality items.

So most of the uncommon and rare races lack permanent settlements and government logistics. They are either small tribes of primitives, servants of a stronger power, a minority group living in human cities, or have some sort of physical, mental, or magical advantage over those in the area.

Halflings shift into the gnome (magical advantage of luck) or tiefling (minority living in human lands) states rather than be equally to elves, dwarves, and humans, who have "modern society and government" of their own over them.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I appreciate the sentiment, but -and I am loathe to acknowledge- but "Fellowship" released 20 years ago.

I'm sorry. But, I don't consider that "recent."

...and now, if you'll excuse me, I have an appointment with a gallon of ice cream with "box of wine" sauce in which to bury my mortality/advancing years.

gods that make me feel old but in a different fashion.

giving that halfling discussion is more or less two sheep ramming their heads together and reading it goes through me in much the same fashion as serpent stone.
gnomes seem to avoid this somehow in a typically gnomish fashion.

I get the feeling this is never going to hit a desirable end

anyone got any last things to note be for we finish? plus considering doing one of these the Bruiser types?

 

[FrozenNorth]

anyone got any last things to note be for we finish? plus considering doing one of these the Bruiser types?

Conclusion: Gnomes are better written than halflings.

(And rereading the gnomish lore made me appreciate them. I’m considering rolling up a forest gnome for my next character).

 

[Mind of tempest]

Conclusion: Gnomes are better written than halflings.

(And rereading the gnomish lore made me appreciate them. I’m considering rolling up a forest gnome for my next character).

I have an understanding of the desire for the small folk.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

For the effects of extreme luck, may I point you to Larry Niven's Ringworld and it's sequels?

 

[TwoSix]

There are too many threats in DnD. Too many things that are too big and too dangerous. And halflings could survive and defend themselves. But not as presented. As presented they are even less well defended than the humans, and the humans stretch believabilty. But everyone just keeps insisting that the problem is me.

This feels more like a world-building question than something specific to halflings.

My assumption is that a bog-standard D&D setting is generally assumed to look like a late medieval Europe, with feudal castles and manors being surrounded by cleared woodlands that support a spread of farms, with small villages dotting the countryside serving as a central point for the farms that are close by.

I think this idea sits in tension with the the idea that there are high challenge threats every few miles that are capable of killing dozens of peasants (of any race) whenever they get hungry or bored.

When I run games, I tend to present settled, civilized areas (where I assume most pastoral halflings are present) as not having a lot of challenging threats. Some stray bandits, occasionally a CR 2-3 creature living in the woods or nearby hills, but generally things that can be handled by low level adventurers. Roving bands of orcs or gnolls are a significant emergency requiring the marshaling of the troops of the local lord, not something that occurs every autumn that the mayor of the village is expected to handle.

If you're running a game where significant challenge threats are being encountered as destroying local villages as a matter of course, I think it would be important to present that as a dynamic situation implying major changes to the political structure of the area, not as something that's part of the general equilibrium of the area. That would only make sense in a frontier or border march area where desperate people settle with a general understanding that there's significant risk.