D&D 5E Rogues are Awesome. Is it the Tasha's Effect?

[TwoSix]

It’s nice in combination with the -5/+10 feats.

Yep. Takes some time to pull off, but you're only down the ASI from GWM (assuming point buy and +2 Dex or +2 Cha from elf/half-elf, Elven Accuracy will bump you to 18 at level 4). Elven Accuracy provides its biggest bonus when the normal hit rate is around 35-40%, which is where using the -5 will normally put you.

I used the combo on my hexblade, it's incredibly fun.

 

[Mistwell]

It’s nice in combination with the -5/+10 feats.

Yes that makes sense. I just think if you're going to be getting feats, focusing on getting a feat that provides for a reaction attack to get a second sneak attack (like Sentinel) or a feat which increases your AC because you're stuck on the front line more often than your hit points can handle might be more useful in the long run than adding +10 damage to an attack which is already doing a ton of damage and is often already overkill.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes that makes sense. I just think if you're going to be getting feats, focusing on getting a feat that provides for a reaction attack to get a second sneak attack (like Sentinel) or a feat which increases your AC because you're stuck on the front line more often than your hit points can handle might be more useful in the long run than adding +10 damage to an attack which is already doing a ton of damage and is often already overkill.

Oh yea, Elven Accuracy is "just OK" for a rogue, although I think Steady Aim makes it a slightly better choice.

 

[Undrave]

I really want to try a Rogue for my next character, either a Mastermind or a Phantom... I wish more classes were designed similarly to the rogue. There's just something really streamlined about their at-will design that I adore.

 

[Mistwell]

I really want to try a Rogue for my next character, either a Mastermind or a Phantom... I wish more classes were designed similarly to the rogue. There's just something really streamlined about their at-will design that I adore.

I do kind of wish they had a few more things which recharged on a short rest. The party will ask if we can rest, and I am always thinking "Well...I can use some hit dice I guess. But other than that...I guess I am on guard duty."

It doesn't even need to be a combat ability. I'd be cool with an exploration ability which recharged on a short rest too. Something like, "After concentrating on a particular environment for one hour while not engaging in strenuous activity, you focus your senses and gain a special awareness from the the smells, texture, sounds, and other aspects. For one minute, you can detect the most frequently used pathways and areas which appear to have been unused for longer periods of time. You have a +10 bonus to detect secret doors, traps, and other hidden objects or effects. You cannot be surprised during this time, and you can detect where creatures are within 30 feet of you as if you had blindsight."

It would give the rogue something to do with that short rest time

 

[aco175]

How is flanking making it easier for you to get sneak attack? The standard sneak attack rules (just have an ally adjacent to a foe to qualify for sneak attack with no need for Advantage) is easier than relying on the optional DMG flanking rule to get advantage (though of course if you use that rule the Advantage is still Advantage, even if it's not needed to qualify for a sneak attack).

I should say that it is easier to hit and deal sneak attack damage. The advantage of rolling 2 dice to hit from flanking. Kind of like 2 weapon fighting but you get to keep your bonus action. You get to sneak attack anyone next to an ally, but you get to deal damage more since you miss less.

 

[Charlaquin]

I do kind of wish they had a few more things which recharged on a short rest. The party will ask if we can rest, and I am always thinking "Well...I can use some hit dice I guess. But other than that...I guess I am on guard duty."

It doesn't even need to be a combat ability. I'd be cool with an exploration ability which recharged on a short rest too. Something like, "After concentrating on a particular environment for one hour while not engaging in strenuous activity, you focus your senses and gain a special awareness from the the smells, texture, sounds, and other aspects. For one minute, you can detect the most frequently used pathways and areas which appear to have been unused for longer periods of time. You have a +10 bonus to detect secret doors, traps, and other hidden objects or effects. You cannot be surprised during this time, and you can detect where creatures are within 30 feet of you as if you had blindsight."

It would give the rogue something to do with that short rest time

In 4e Essentials, the Thief rogue had an encounter power that they could use in response to a missed attack roll that retroactively gave them a bonus to the roll. That’d be dope to bring back as a short rest ability.

 

[Flamestrike]

In combat he usually gets Advantage. He has three options to get Advantage: the new optional rule from Tasha's called Steady Aim (which applies to both ranged and melee attacks), attacking from being hidden as a halfling (can hide behind ally), or the Help action from my familiar.

Requires a house rule, or a very lucky initiative roll from your familiar.

I know this is not "the most" damage a class can do at this level. I am sure a Paladin for example can do more using some limited resources, and for sure a Wizard can with some limited resources. But, it's just that it's so easy for a traditional rogue to do a ton of damage, without using limited resources.

Yep. Rogues are an outlier in 5E in that they (an their subclasses) are resource neutral (with the exception of the Arcane Trickster and its spell slots).

Their abilities are all at will (expertise, cunning action, sneak attack, uncanny dodge, reliable talent, slippery mind etc etc). This (by design) extends to all their subclasses as well (Thief, Assassin, Swashbuckler, Scout, Inquisitive, Mastermind are all resource neutral) with only a few subclass abilities requiring resource expenditure in the Soul Knife and the Trickster.

I've always held the view that Rogues should be the DPR and utility benchmarks of 5E.

If a class can out perform them briefly via a resource use (smite or actin surge nova on a Paladin or Fighter, or Spells from a caster) that's OK.

Rogues can just keep on trucking, regardless of the length of the adventuring day or any other factor (barring HP and HD of course).

What are other people's impressions of playing a rogue? Do you also find it plays out roughly as I've said, or is what I'm experiencing more geared towards Tasha's Cauldron's impact on the rogue with Steady Aim and the two combat cantrips being reprinted there?

Thats why I like Steady Aim. Rogues are getting advantage a lot anyway thanks to the Hide action, and there is a massive trade off for a melee rogue in that it takes away from his biggest draw (cunning action disengage).

You're trading that mobility for an easier way of obtaining advantage.

Its also much easier for a new player to just spam. I see a lot of newb rogue players being a bit overwhelmed with thier tactical options round to round with cunning action, and needing pre-conditions for hiding and sneak attack.

That just clears it up and makes it a lot easier and smoother for everyone and speeds up play immensely.

 

[Mistwell]

Requires a house rule, or a very lucky initiative roll from your familiar.

Er, what? Familiar flies to my target, and readies the help action for when I am about to attack. That's it. No house rule. No need for a lucky initiative roll. Only risk is someone else killing that target before the rogue's turn, or foes killing the familiar.

Thats why I like Steady Aim. Rogues are getting advantage a lot anyway thanks to the Hide action, and there is a massive trade off for a melee rogue in that it takes away from his biggest draw (cunning action disengage).

You're trading that mobility for an easier way of obtaining advantage.

Its also much easier for a new player to just spam. I see a lot of newb rogue players being a bit overwhelmed with thier tactical options round to round with cunning action, and needing pre-conditions for hiding and sneak attack.

That just clears it up and makes it a lot easier and smoother for everyone and speeds up play immensely.

Yes. And I also find it speeds up my play, though I am an experienced player, which frees time up for me to do more role playing. When I am playing my Wizard, I spend most of the time others players are taking their turn thinking about the mechanics of the game and my spell options and the battlefield tactics. When I play my rogue, I can think up clever and fun role playing things during other players turns, which is usually more fun for everyone once my turn comes around.

 

[iserith]

Er, what? Familiar flies to my target, and readies the help action for when I am about to attack. That's it. No house rule. No need for a lucky initiative roll. Only risk is someone else killing that target before the rogue's turn, or foes killing the familiar.

Yeah, I warn players doing this trick that the first time the familiar does the Help action, they are telling me it is fair game. I will have enemies throw rocks at it if they can target it.