D&D 5E How to run a successful "poisoned NPC" scene in 5e?

[Stormonu]

Use Dream instead. The ruler has been plagued by nightmares of evil events to follow. He charges the PCs with going out and investigating the source of these evil dreams and what they mean - and if they can be prevented.

 

[Quickleaf]

Your gut instinct tells you the right path - this just doesn't work in D&D once you reach a certain level without awkward force.

This storyline is best run at low levels when the PCs do not have easy access to methods to remove poison. After they can just get rid of it with a spell they likely have prepared, it becomes a bit obvious that you want to tell your story despite their abilities. I run these storylines (not for a king, but for a local figure of power in a town, such as a mayor) at levels 1 or 2. I can extent it with curses in the place of poisons at levels 3 and 4. At 5 to 8 I can do a short term storyline with a curse, as PCs do not often have remove curse prepared, but you can expect them to prepare it with the next long rest (or even a short rest for a few oddball characters).

Similar storylines that can achieve similar goals and can still work (although PCs can overcome these with a little guile) are: Imposters replacing the king, Misdirection (I had an NPC use phantasmal force to make the leader of the PCs see his patron ordering the group away on a mission at once), and old age (The king collapses as you speak to him, and his attendants announce his body is giving out. This is no disease, curse, poison or wound - it is just the ravages of time. Unless someone brings him a potion of longevity within X hours he will pass from this realm).

I definitely see where you're coming from. Though, I have found a workaround in the past, for curses at least.

There was a hag's curse which afflicted the 5 NPCs involved in the execution of her sister, in order of direct involvement to less direct involvement – the baron's son who dealt the killing stroke, the priest who administered last rites, etc. The terms of the curse tied it to a wolfskin, which was a culturally important item in the region the adventure took place in. So remove curse would lift the curse temporarily on one person, but the temptation of the power bestowed while cursed would lure them back to recreating the wolfskin, and thus re-cursing them. Even killing the cursed NPC wasn't a complete solution, because then the curse would become active on the next NPC under the curse's larger umbrella. It wasn't easy to design, by any stretch of the imagination, but playtesting went well enough for me to publish it as The Beast of Graenseskov.

 

[Quickleaf]

We use a houserule condition called "Doomed". Somebody who is Doomed is going to die; there's nothing you can do to change that. It's written in the stars -- the wounds to their body or spirit are too previous. It's a condition that the DM can give to NPCs. Great for those "dying words" scenes without the PCs suddenly ruining all the drama.

With your house rule, is there more to it than that? For example, are there ways for a player character to inflict "Doomed" on a NPC? Or does it entirely fall within DM fiat, making it a formalized Session Zero / CYA kind of conversation?

 

[Quickleaf]

The key to any "You cannot cure it" scene is to have prior scenes where the party successfully cured stuff.

That's a great point. Thank you. I don't think it has come up in the 5 sessions we've played so far in this campaign, so I'll make sure to include an opportunity to cure someone prior to the audience with the ruler session.

 

[Morrus]

With your house rule, is there more to it than that? For example, are there ways for a player character to inflict "Doomed" on a NPC? Or does it entirely fall within DM fiat, making it a formalized Session Zero / CYA kind of conversation?

The way we use it at home it's DM fiat and only used for NPCs. It's a simple plot device, basically.

But in Level Up we are including it with a few more ways to get it.

 

[Quickleaf]

Plot could call for the the ruler to need special plant to heal and the restoration spell only slows it. The PCs may find out that the plant only grow in X place which is where the spy lives or wants you to think he lives. PCs need to travel there and find antidote before ruler dies. They may or may not be wanted by the kingdom for attacking the ruler or ruler planned this and needs the PCs to take the fall while he figures out who the real threat is. If he is in a coma though, he may need to do this from the astral plane.

This may cause the plyers to make some judgements on stuff like guards attacking them and not wanting to kill them, or the ruler trying to help them be sending said guards in another direction or giving the party a NPC if needed- maybe a escape boat ride or something.

You've got the feel of what I'd like to evoke. Even if they're clever enough to avoid being actively hunted by the ruler, there's also an opportunity to go deep cover / lend legitimacy to the idea that they're renegades.

That's beautiful. So maybe the poison/toxic element exacerbates the ruler's existing condition rather than strictly poisoning him - that's part of its design. Implying the culprit had intimate knowledge of the ruler's medical history. It works doubly great because the bastard heir is hiding in a region known for its biodiversity and being a source of medicinal plants (fantasy equivalent of Lake Moeris/Faiyum).

Thanks for the inspired idea of the ruler contacting them while he's comatose / from the Astral. Very cool!

This is a great time for the PCs to discover the Pharoah is already dead, and their life has been extended by magical means. (Lich? Mummy? Or something else, you decide.)

The poison is not a poison in the conventional sense. It is an elixir deliberately concocted to destroy the reanimating magic.

In effect, the Pharoah has been "poisoned" by life itself.

Let's see them Lesser Restoration THAT.

That would be quite a twist! Thanks for the suggestion. It would be fitting, as one of the PCs's backstories is that he was killed and after 10 days he was brought back as undead at Pharaoh's orders.

Maybe the NPC hasn't ingested exactly poison, but something that can't be easily healed? Like grounded glass or some similar small sharp thing? The NPC isn't poisoned, but has something wounding and making it's way through them, so lesser restoration doesn't get rid of it, and even if it's healed by cure wounds, the NPC will soon find itself debilitated again as the foreign objects shred their way through its body.

Edit: Also, maybe some kind of strong hemotoxin? Then, even if the NPC is healed by lesser restoration and cure wounds, it's going to spend some time ill as it's dissolved organs and destroyed blood recovers, so you can justify the need of Regenerate to instantly heal such gruesome damage.

I appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking. I never would have thought of a hemotoxin! I was thinking some kind of agent that exacerbates an existing health condition would be a pretty insidious way to attempt an assassination. You're right that I need to pin down the specifics of what this substance is, how it's not a traditional poison, and what the ruler's illness is (that won't respond to cure disease magic).

Use Dream instead. The ruler has been plagued by nightmares of evil events to follow. He charges the PCs with going out and investigating the source of these evil dreams and what they mean - and if they can be prevented.

Love these out of the box ideas! Thank you folks for taking the time.

 

[Quickleaf]

I think some flowchart planning will really help here.

If this were a book or a movie, you could precisely plan out how the characters will act. In a game, though, it's frustrating as a player to not be able to effect the outcome.

I notice in your plan, though, you have a few different ideas of how this will play out, which is good!

I would be less concerned with how the scene actually plays out, and focus more on how you can communicate consequences to the players. Any action they take should have consequences. You can have it all lead to the same follow-up scene (characters have to get by without the king), but still let it play out as consequences to the characters' choices, not despite their choices.

So, for example:

If they try to cure the king -

The vizier warns them that approaching the king without his permission is a crime.

The guards will try to block them while the royal physician is summoned.

The king will look worse and worse.


If they don't approach -

The king will get worse and worse.

They will head whispers from others in the court, wondering why they don't take actions.

They will see someone running away - if stopped, this person is a spy or a messenger or something, but not responsible for the poison.


If they cure him -

He is whisked away to a secret chamber.

He quickly whispers or sends a secret message: "Act as if I have died, I will send word!"

They hear whispers from others in court wondering how the characters knew and we're prepared for the king's poisoning!

Even if I am steering the story towards this particular scene and the "poisoning" (for lack of a better word) is a foregone thing, I still see many ways my players can deal with that situation. You've hit the nail on the head.

I am trying to lean away from too much stick and not enough carrot. If they're damned if they do approach, damned if they don't approach ... I guess there can be a time and place for that in D&D, but it's something I tread really delicately around since it can easily go into the "not fun" realm, at least IME.

Where I was getting stuck was tying the skill challenge (to convince the ruler of a threat) to the outcome of the poisoning, when in reality - as you pointed out - they're separate things. That's a helpful framework. Thank you!

 

[Nebulous]

I think your set up is absolutely fine, thwarted only by D&Ds easy access to all inclusive magic that is probably too powerful for the low level but fun nonetheless. I would say the particular poison is subject only to Greater Restoration and therefore out of the immediate reach of the PCs, or a quest in and of itself to find a greater restoration.

 

[aco175]

I think your set up is absolutely fine, thwarted only by D&Ds easy access to all inclusive magic that is probably too powerful for the low level but fun nonetheless. I would say the particular poison is subject only to Greater Restoration and therefore out of the immediate reach of the PCs, or a quest in and of itself to find a greater restoration.

The only problem with limiting it to greater restoration is that the players may think that the ruler can summon the greatest cleric in the land, which may be someone that can cast it. There would need to be some reason that he is not around, or not able to cast it, or is the one behind the poisoning and fails on purpose.

 

[Quickleaf]

Or its a particularly virulent poison that can only be cured with Greater Restoration or similar magic.

A DC 15 Wisdom (Medicine) check reveals this information.

I think your set up is absolutely fine, thwarted only by D&Ds easy access to all inclusive magic that is probably too powerful for the low level but fun nonetheless. I would say the particular poison is subject only to Greater Restoration and therefore out of the immediate reach of the PCs, or a quest in and of itself to find a greater restoration.

Sorry, I missed this comment before. I'm running a pseudo-Egyptian setting embracing D&D's built-in magic (sans the "named" spells like Leomund's, etc., and with a few unique setting spells). The ruler (pharaoh) can cast greater restoration, an allied high priest likely to be present can cast it, and there are a few ranking priests in his palace who can cast it. So even if I could devise a narrative explanation why greater restoration is necessary, it's entirely what @aco175 said that the players would be right to expect the ruler to get that spell cast on him right quick.