D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

[clearstream]

And both are covered in Vaseline, while a gale force wind blows several wasps into the eyes of the climbers.

As described, I understood it was knotted on the spot. It doesn't seem right to me to compare it to rappelling using prepared ropes, securely anchored, and a harness. If it seems to a DM that the situation is one that contains no risk or cost of failure, then they shouldn't call for a roll. It depends what is described to their players, and what those players described their characters doing.

We know there was a tower, a rope knotted and thrown up, and some climbing to do. Each group's imaginary version of that will differ: it very much depends on what was described at the table. We can't forbid a group from describing a daunting situation, even if for our group we end up describing a forgiving situation.

 

[clearstream]

Yeah, I should know this by now, but it came up the other day and stumped the group. They wanted to throw a grappling hook on a knotted rope 80 feet up and snag a small window they'd broken. We were trying to figure out how much the knotted rope would help, but the best we could find was that a magic rope of climbing gives you advantage on the climb check. Fine. So I said your grappling hook knotted rope does the same thing. You climb half speed, so to get that far up would be three checks. The tricky part was setting the DC. I said 12, but maybe that was too high with the knotted rope. The fat dwarf cleric wants to climb up too and the player (my brother) wants it easy peasy it's so easy. DC 5 is he thinks is reasonable. Which, I guess back in 3.x a knotted rope does drop the DC to 5. Maybe I should have said DC 8 or 10. I wanted some difficulty of climbing up 80 feet. Failure wouldn't mean you fall, it means you don't make progress and have to make another check.

The fat dwarf had Athletics +5. The rogue only had Athletics +1. They ended up trying something else because it seemed too dangerous to climb a knotted rope that high up.

How should I have handled this better?

Based on responses, it seems to me like this

• if the worst outcome was taking more time, and they weren't under time pressure, then there shouldn't have been a check
• if however it was "dangerous to climb" suggesting a risk and cost of failure, then probably you were calling for a few too many rolls, and setting the DC a little high: perhaps one roll, at a DC anywhere between 5 and 8, would have been right

Being a DM is not a negotiation with other DMs about every detail of your imaginary world. Ultimately, you and your players decide what the imaginary situation is at your table. Another DM might picture something more perilous - or far more forgiving - but you aren't bound by what other DMs decide.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you see "storyteller" as part of your job as DM, then creating a sense of tension is what you might want to achieve, without actually imperilling any characters. Because killed falling off a rope does not make a good story. So, ask each player to roll once when they climb the rope, but don't tell them the DC. The DC is actually 2. If anyone rolls a 1 they are startled by a pigeon and slide down 1d4x10 feet, taking 1 point of rope burn damage for every 10 feet. Only characters with 9 or less strength and no athletics proficiency can fail for any reason other than dumb bad luck, and even then, it's just a minor setback.

If you aren't playing "storyteller", only make characters with minus athletics roll.

 

[jgsugden]

Just when I said I was out, I get pulled right back in...

Is it RAI that creatures with a climb speed need to make Athletics checks to climb?

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If you have Spider Climb - no checks.

If you have a climb speed - you cannot forgo Athletics checks when climbing.

If you have neither, it was not directly addressed, but ... well, common sense.

At this point, I have no illusions (made that Int ability check) that anyone is going to change their opinion, but if someone gets this deep into the thread and is still up in the air... the designer intent (specifically from the Lead on the PHB - the person most responsible for establishing the core mechanics of the game) is that climbing checks require an athletics check.

 

[Imaculata]

the designer intent (specifically from the Lead on the PHB - the person most responsible for establishing the core mechanics of the game) is that climbing checks require an athletics check.

Ehhh, that's not what he says. Re-read it. He speaks on two matters:

JC: A trait like Spider Climb, not a climbing speed, lets some creatures forgo ability checks when climbing.

JC: Without a climb speed, you move at half speed when climbing (see PH, 182).

He says creatures with a trait like spider climb make no athletics checks when climbing, and that creatures with a climb speed cannot ignore such a check. He does not say that athletic checks are 'required' for other creatures to climb. Climbing speed is used to determine how fast a creature climbs. If a creature does not have a climbing speed listed, use half their movement speed.

The reasons for this are obvious. Spider Climb makes a creature stick to a surface, so it is literally impossible for them to lose their footing. They move on a wall, as if moving on a floor. They negate the failure state that would occur when failing a climb check... there for, they don't make a check, since there is no consequence to failure.

 

[jgsugden]

Ehhh, that's not what he says. Re-read it. He says creatures with spider climbs make no athletics checks when climbing. He does not say that athletic checks are 'required' for other creatures to climb.

A trait like Spider Climb, not a climbing speed, lets some creatures forgo ability checks when climbing.

That, in response to:

Is it RAI that creatures with a climb speed need to make Athletics checks to climb? RAW are silent on the issue, thus yes?

A CLIMB SPEED DOES NOT LET YOU FORGO AN ABILITY CHECK is the answer to the question DOES A CREATURE WITH A CLIMB SPEED NEED TO MAKE ATHLETICS CHECKS TO CLIMB?

Latitude 29.533438
Longitude 31.270695

 

[Imaculata]

That, in response to:
A CLIMB SPEED DOES NOT LET YOU FORGO AN ABILITY CHECK is the answer to the question DOES A CREATURE WITH A CLIMB SPEED NEED TO MAKE ATHLETICS CHECKS TO CLIMB?

Latitude 29.533438
Longitude 31.270695

Your all caps does not improve your reading comprehension.

He does not speak on the conditions when athletics checks are made during climbing, nor does he say that climbing checks are needed to climb at all. You are trying to read something into his quote to support your position, but which is not there in the text.

In other words, just because a creature has a climb speed, does not mean they can ignore an ability check "When the DM calls for it". Only creatures with the Spider Climb trait ignore an athletics check during climbing. He does not say that climbing means you must make an ability check to do it at all. In fact, that would be directly refuted by the rules as written.

 

[clearstream]

Your all caps does not improve your reading comprehension.

He does not speak on the conditions when athletics checks are made during climbing, nor does he say that climbing checks are needed to climb at all. You are trying to read something into his quote to support your position, but which is not there in the text.

In other words, just because a creature has a climb speed, does not mean they can ignore an ability check "When the DM calls for it". He does not say that climbing means you must make an ability check to do it at all. In fact, that would be directly refuted by the rules as written.

While it is true he sandbags in classic Crawford fashion, my reading of question and reply aligns with @jgsugden's.

EDIT I do also agree with your hedging that this is "When the DM calls for it". Crawford is not saying that the DM must call for it, only that a check is not obviated just because you have a climb speed.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

That, in response to:
A CLIMB SPEED DOES NOT LET YOU FORGO AN ABILITY CHECK is the answer to the question DOES A CREATURE WITH A CLIMB SPEED NEED TO MAKE ATHLETICS CHECKS TO CLIMB?

Latitude 29.533438
Longitude 31.270695

Only if there is a chance of success, a chance for failure, and a meaningful consequence for failure. Just like any other ability check in the game where a complication exists.
Climbing a ladder? Auto-success, no roll. Climbing a ladder while a goblin is shaking it? Probably a STR (Athletics) check to climb (depending on how the player framed their approach).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

While it is true he sandbags in classic Crawford fashion, my reading of question and reply aligns with @jgsugden's.

EDIT I do also agree with your hedging that this is "When the DM calls for it". Crawford is not saying that the DM must call for it, only that a check is not obviated just because you have a climb speed.

Paul's rule of Thumb: If they have a climb speed reduce the DC by 5 and give them advantage.