D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Chaosmancer]

lol Mary Sueism now?

When their gods actively protect them harm, actively make their crops grow more than is natural, the human king gives them unique exemptions to taxes.... What else would you like me to call it?

From what?

If you mean something like there are no other races on the planet other than Halflings, then they develop much differently. Create that if you want it. We don't have that. We have a world with Humans, Dwarves, Elves and such that have lands and small Halfling villages that dwell in them.

Which means halflings can't exist as written without being protected by the bigger races.

Top four race for adventurers, can't survive as written without other people to protect them from harm.

He gets stopped by the party of PCs, which has a very good chance of having a Halfling.

Missing the point to say "but the party prevents the apocalypse" when I'm talking about NPC stuff and setting the tone.

Sounds reasonable.

Probably something close to normal, unless you live in town or city belonging to the Humans. You pointed out all of the big things that happened to the Realms. Humans take care of it. This is known.

They aren't protected by the Humans. They DO have the benefits of living in a civilized country, though.

I'm sorry, how are they not protected by humans? You literally just said they don't need to worry about a literal army of the undead being lead by a King of the Dead because the humans will take care of it.

That is about as blatant as a "protected by humans" as you can get.

Yeah. It's a cool change to the rather boring and repetitive nature of the other major races.

Yeah, nothing like relatable motivations to make the game boring.

Yep! Wanderlust and curiosity are the main motivations. Or whatever motivation you want them to have, since PCs can vary wildly from racial norms. Make a Halfling PC who thinks his race is crazy and doom is coming to them in their complacency.

Wanderlust and curiosity are fine motivators for people leaving home. However, that doesn't change the fundamental problem.

Let me ask you this, have you seen Guardians of the Galaxy? The scene where they are talking about why to deal with the threat of Ronin? And the argument that convinces them is "Because I live here."?

That is a common response. Why should we tackle this threat? Because it is threatening our homes, the people we love, things we care about are at risk. But, if you have a halfling in the party, they are unconcerned with that. They could head home and their home would be safe. They can tell the DM that the lore says that the halflings are protected, this threat won't touch them. Sure, maybe you want to say "that makes them even more heroic and good, they are willing to fight for others even when they are safe" but that just makes them better people than the humans and elves and dwarves. Because those greedy ambitious races are fighting to protect their homes, but the humble halfling is fighting to protect other people's homes.

Which again... sounds like a Mary Sue, doesn't it? Always having to be better than everyone else.

That's why I don't like these bubble shires. They ruin the narrative by insisting that halflings are more special than everyone else.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Oh, and as far as why they adventure? That's also covered "Halflings usually set out on the adventurer’s path to defend their communities, support their friends, or explore a wide and wonder-filled world. For them, adventuring is less a career than an opportunity or sometimes a necessity."

Quoting you because I'm sure @Maxperson agrees with that quote.

How is it a necessity they leave to defend their communities, if their communities can't be found and their luck means they can't be threatened?

 

[Maxperson]

Doesn't matter about the size but the ratios and porportions.

In order for the unadventerous to produce more adventurers than the adventurous , their numbers have to be large.
If there numbers are large, it's harder for them to be hidden.

This is not necessarily true. It really depends on how many adventurers your world has. In some games, 100 adventurers at any given time spread out over the whole world is a lot. Maybe there's 1000 total in the FR. Spread out over all of the races, the big 4 might only have a few hundred each. I think you're imagining many more adventurers than most worlds have.

Well the lore leans to the villages. So how are all these many villages invisible or allowed to exist with no diplomatic power.

I think that the lore focuses on the villages, because those are distinct from the other cities of the other races and should be talked about more. I don't think it implies that there are more or less Halflings living in cities.

 

[Maxperson]

Which means halflings can't exist as written without being protected by the bigger races.

Top four race for adventurers, can't survive as written without other people to protect them from harm.

This is flat out wrong. The other races cleared out the land centuries ago and made it livable. That doesn't equate to protecting Halflings now. There's nothing to protect them from now.

Missing the point to say "but the party prevents the apocalypse" when I'm talking about NPC stuff and setting the tone.

The point is that these things happen a lot and get fixed by adventurers. Why worry about it when you are well out of the way and it will most likely be over with before anything comes to bother you?

I'm sorry, how are they not protected by humans? You literally just said they don't need to worry about a literal army of the undead being lead by a King of the Dead because the humans will take care of it.

The army isn't going to be going near them. They are well out of the way and the army will be attacking cities and large towns that are out in the open. What's to worry about?

Yeah, nothing like relatable motivations to make the game boring.

I think you meant repetitive. You make things relatable and vary them up. The Halfling lore is both relatable and different. It's refreshing.

Let me ask you this, have you seen Guardians of the Galaxy? The scene where they are talking about why to deal with the threat of Ronin? And the argument that convinces them is "Because I live here."?

That is a common response. Why should we tackle this threat? Because it is threatening our homes, the people we love, things we care about are at risk. But, if you have a halfling in the party, they are unconcerned with that. They could head home and their home would be safe. They can tell the DM that the lore says that the halflings are protected, this threat won't touch them. Sure, maybe you want to say "that makes them even more heroic and good, they are willing to fight for others even when they are safe" but that just makes them better people than the humans and elves and dwarves. Because those greedy ambitious races are fighting to protect their homes, but the humble halfling is fighting to protect other people's homes.

You're making a lot of assumptions there that are unfounded under the current lore. Halflings make close bonds. There's no way the Halfling adventurer would leave the rest of the party to face death and just run off. They're brave and loyal. The lore on adventurers also says that it's common for them to vary from the racial lore, so you're making a gross assumption what the Halfling would and would not be concerned about. That's up to the player running the Halfling. Not you and not the lore.

 

[Maxperson]

Quoting you because I'm sure @Maxperson agrees with that quote.

How is it a necessity they leave to defend their communities, if their communities can't be found and their luck means they can't be threatened?

Well Mr. Strawman, they can defend them because we and the lore never said that the communities can't be found. Only that it's really hard and rarely happens. And I've repeated this to you the several times you've made that Strawman argument. Rarely =/= never.

 

[Minigiant]

This is not necessarily true. It really depends on how many adventurers your world has. In some games, 100 adventurers at any given time spread out over the whole world is a lot. Maybe there's 1000 total in the FR. Spread out over all of the races, the big 4 might only have a few hundred each. I think you're imagining many more adventurers than most worlds have.

Doesn't matter.

For example, half elves are said in the lore of all editions that they don't feel comfortable in any land. And almost the whole half elven race goes wandering and/or adventuring if they have the skills (which they usually do train).

So you have a race that is like 90% adventurers and a race that is 0.1% adventurers. So you'd need like a thousand times more halflings then half elves to outnumber them.

But wait it gets worse. 5e says if humans and elves interact enough, there might be communities of half elves. So now you have millions of halflings doing less than jack squat to outnumber half elves in adventurers.

And heaven help you if you have a tiefling baby boom.

 

[Maxperson]

Doesn't matter.

For example, half elves are said in the lore of all editions that they don't feel comfortable in any land. And almost the whole half elven race goes wandering and/or adventuring if they have the skills (which they usually do train).

First, not many half-elves. Second, wandering =/= adventuring.

1e Lore: "Half-elves do not form a race unto themselves, but rather they can be found amongst both elvenkind and men. For details of the typical half-elf see ADVANCED DUNGEONS L DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL under the heading Elf." - So the typical 1e Half-elf is a 1 hit die creature.

2e Lore: "In general, a half-elf has the curiosity, inventiveness, and ambition of his human ancestors and the refined senses, love of
nature, and artistic tastes of his elven ancestors.

Half-elves do not form communities among themselves; rather, they can be found living in both elven and human communities. The reactions of humans and elves to half-elves ranges from intrigued fascination to outright bigotry." - Still nothing about either wandering or most of them becoming adventurers.

3e Lore: "Half-elves find themselves drawn to strange careers and unusual company. Taking up the life of an adventurer comes easily to many of them. Like elves, they are driven by wanderlust." - "Many" is undefined and could be 5%, 10% or whatever percent of a small number of racial members. Halflings adventurers would still dwarf(see what I did there) the number of Half-elven adventurers out there.

4e Lore: unavailable to me.

5e Lore: "Many half-elves, unable to fit into either society, choose lives of solitary wandering or join with other misfits and outcasts in the adventuring life." - this does not say that many become adventurers. Only that many(again undefined) of the rare half-elves wander or join the adventuring life.

So you have a race that is like 90% adventurers and a race that is 0.1% adventurers. So you'd need like a thousand times more halflings then half elves to outnumber them.

Um, no. You have no race that is 90% adventurers and you have Halflings which the lore calls out for producing lots of adventurers, so .1% is way too low. I mean, if you invent fictional numbers like that, then you can almost show that Halflings need thousands of times the numbers to make more adventurers. There's no way that even close to 50% of the very, very few Half-elves become adventurers. I would be shocked if it's even as high as 25%.

But wait it gets worse. 5e says if humans and elves interact enough, there might be communities of half elves. So now you have millions of halflings doing less than jack squat to outnumber half elves in adventurers.

It does not say that there might be communities of Half-elves. It says that there might be SMALL communities of Half-elves. So if you have a large population of Elves and Humans mixing together(rarely happens), you MIGHT get a few dozen Half-elves in a small community. It's not even a sure thing in those rare instances where it could happen.

And heaven help you if you have a tiefling baby boom.

You might have 3 in the city!

 

[Gammadoodler]

Doesn't matter.

For example, half elves are said in the lore of all editions that they don't feel comfortable in any land. And almost the whole half elven race goes wandering and/or adventuring if they have the skills (which they usually do train).

So you have a race that is like 90% adventurers and a race that is 0.1% adventurers. So you'd need like a thousand times more halflings then half elves to outnumber them.

But wait it gets worse. 5e says if humans and elves interact enough, there might be communities of half elves. So now you have millions of halflings doing less than jack squat to outnumber half elves in adventurers.

And heaven help you if you have a tiefling baby boom.

And so you have "millions of halflings doing less than jack squat", just like the millions of humans doing less than jack squat.

This mathiness is silly. Acting like these are actual hypothetical possibilities that could occur organically without some kind of guiding hand.

Further, this whole concept of "major race" independent of setting is creating a "problem" for the sake of creating it. It's like complaining about how many speaking lines a character has for a play you've yet to write.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's going to depend. Depending on campaign and region game is protected and hunting implements are illegal.

In any case, assuming they are not illegal I don't see a reason many of the halflings would not have them.

Which is not especially common, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Most commoners will know how to hunt.

 

[Maxperson]

Further, this whole concept of "major race" independent of setting is creating a "problem" for the sake of creating it. It's like complaining about how many speaking lines a character has for a play you've yet to write.

You can discuss a specific setting or you can discuss the default lore. This is a discussion about the default lore and the PHB defaults Halflings, Humans, Dwarves and Elves to being the common races, and the rest to being uncommon, though if you read them they are really fairly rare. So while yes, a specific setting can make Elves one in a million and Tieflings common as dirt, the default racial settings gives us some place to start the discussions.