D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Maxperson]

Which is not especially common, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Most commoners will know how to hunt.

And cut wood. And use a large knife for various tasks around the house and workplace.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why not make the baseline halfling realistic so people wouldn't feel obligated to break the stereotype or run them as jokes?

Because most people like them how they are, and don’t find that they make any less sense than other folk.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And cut wood. And use a large knife for various tasks around the house and workplace.

Yep.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is flat out wrong. The other races cleared out the land centuries ago and made it livable. That doesn't equate to protecting Halflings now. There's nothing to protect them from now.

1) Wrong on the other races clearing out the lands centuries ago. Most settings have some pretty nasty stuff attacking even major cities within the past fifty to hundred years.

2) The PHB tells us the humans are protecting the halflings, just read the race relation bit from the halfling entry. It is literally stated there.

3) There are still plenty of threats in the world. Even if you assume there are no monsters, there are still evil cults, despots, bandits, ect. And most of the border regions DO have monsters.

The point is that these things happen a lot and get fixed by adventurers. Why worry about it when you are well out of the way and it will most likely be over with before anything comes to bother you?

Because that is Saturday Morning Cartoon logic. "Nothing bad will happen because the good guys will win the day". That isn't how real people would really react to a threat like that.

Yes, we the players figure the narrative is that we will go and stop the threat, but we also have to believe that if we don't, the threat will continue. Otherwise you get the problem with the players not caring, because the threat isn't real, it is just smoke and mirrors.

The army isn't going to be going near them. They are well out of the way and the army will be attacking cities and large towns that are out in the open. What's to worry about?

You realize that an "army of the dead" doesn't care about things being out of the way, right?

But again, you are literally just proving my point. Halflings are safe, they are too precious to be harmed, so they shall never fall under threat, even during an apocalyptic event, they are just tucked into those safe corners where the world will never end.

I think you meant repetitive. You make things relatable and vary them up. The Halfling lore is both relatable and different. It's refreshing.

I literally cannot relate to an entire race of people that nothing bad ever happens to, that can sip tea as the world burns because they are safe no matter what.

For rustic farm folk, they are more disconnected than the most secluded noble in their ivory tower.

And feel free to say I'm strawmanning or twisting your words, because you never said that "nothing bad ever happens". You don't need to say the the exact words for your intent to be quite clear. A literal apocalyptic army of the dead is approaching? Halflings don't need to worry "The army isn't going to be going near them. They are well out of the way and the army will be attacking cities and large towns that are out in the open." " Why worry about it when you are well out of the way and it will most likely be over with before anything comes to bother you?"

That tells us everything. Halflings are safe. Nothing bad will happen to them.

You're making a lot of assumptions there that are unfounded under the current lore. Halflings make close bonds. There's no way the Halfling adventurer would leave the rest of the party to face death and just run off. They're brave and loyal. The lore on adventurers also says that it's common for them to vary from the racial lore, so you're making a gross assumption what the Halfling would and would not be concerned about. That's up to the player running the Halfling. Not you and not the lore.

Did you even read my post or did you just want to level accusations at me? Like I said, he'll probably fight. The problem is he isn't fighting to protect his home. He literally cannot be fighting to protect his home, because his home can never be put in danger. It is too far out of the way, the threat will be over by the time it could even be found, if it even can be found, which it can't.

But the Brave and Loyal Halfling will fight for his friends, who are fighting to save their homes. And isn't the Brave and Loyal Halfling so wonderfully perfect for doing so? And isn't he not only Brave and Loyal but humble, only wanting the simple pleasures in life, a good fire, good friends, not like those elves and dwarves and humans that are so ambitious and greedy. But that's okay because the Brave and Loyal Halfling will help them anyways to protect their homes. Though, if they weren't so greedy and ambitious and were more like the Brave and Loyal Halfling, then their homes would already be safe, because that's why the Brave and Loyal Halflings home is safe, and they don't need to pay taxes either, because they make close bonds with people over their love of the simple pleasures in life, like a good fire and good ale, why that's why the dwarven army came to their rescue, and that elven army, and the human army too. Of course they didn't need to, because the Halflings can't be found.

Does it sound as saccharine and grating to you as it does to me? And while the Brave and Loyal Halfling Adventurer goes and saves the day, what are the other halflings doing? While the human commoners are praying in the temples for salvation, because they might all be killed by an implaccable army of the dead, what are the Halfling commoners doing? While the Human soldiers are staring at the rotted faces of their own death, what are the halfling commoners doing? Those same halfling commoners who never payed any taxes to the king, because they had an exemption, and so that contribution to the common defense was never made? Those same halfling commoners who everyone is really great friends with, but no one quite knows why they are such good friends. I mean, they are pleasant enough to talk to, but when the chips went down, they hide in their village, content to know that they are perfectly safe, while maybe one of them happens to be following a group of people who care about this kingdom and are fighting to protect it.

And that's enough for you. That one halfling adventurer happened to be involved.

Well Mr. Strawman, they can defend them because we and the lore never said that the communities can't be found. Only that it's really hard and rarely happens. And I've repeated this to you the several times you've made that Strawman argument. Rarely =/= never.

Right, once a hundred years or so, if the problem isn't resolved ahead of time by the humans, elves, dwarves and any adventurers who happen to be nearby.

Then the halflings might beat off a ogre, or maybe a few stupid goblins who don't know that human towns are really such better targets, because greedy ambitious humans have gold and jewels and other things goblins obviously crave, since they steal pigs and spoons and grains.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And so you have "millions of halflings doing less than jack squat", just like the millions of humans doing less than jack squat.

This mathiness is silly. Acting like these are actual hypothetical possibilities that could occur organically without some kind of guiding hand.

Further, this whole concept of "major race" independent of setting is creating a "problem" for the sake of creating it. It's like complaining about how many speaking lines a character has for a play you've yet to write.

It really isn't as silly as you seem to think it is.

The PHB, as stupid as I find it, tells us that the four common races are Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling. Everything else is uncommon to rare. The gnomes had an entire country in FR, halflings are more common than that. tabaxi have an entire continent, but Halflings are more common than that. An entire nation of Dragonborn were transported in a massive city that could house most of their race from another world. Halflings are more common than that.

Haflings are everywhere.... living either under the protection of other races in their cities or in islotated shires of less than a hundred individuals, with only the rare curious bloke who wonders a bit too much going on to become an adventurer. So rare in fact that if you have one person in the village who is willing to leave, you may possibly have a single elder who was the same way and understands. Since that is a difference of likely 100 years in age, and halflings reach maturity about the same time as humans, that is one adventurer per village about every five generations or so.

And Halflings are more common adventures than say, Goliaths who are a race of people who literally go and fight the biggest meanest thing they can find to show off. Or Tieflings who are humans with a bloodline, who are likely driven into lives of extreme danger like adventuring to make ends meet. Same with Half-Orcs, and Half-Elves.


So, you can see how there has to be... a lot of halflings for this set up to make sense. Like, a lot of them. If you are getting one adventurer every 3 to 5 generations and they are still more common than people who basically live to fight and hunt monsters.

 

[Maxperson]

1) Wrong on the other races clearing out the lands centuries ago. Most settings have some pretty nasty stuff attacking even major cities within the past fifty to hundred years.

99% of which doesn't come from down the block. The land is generally pretty clear until you get to the frontier areas.

2) The PHB tells us the humans are protecting the halflings, just read the race relation bit from the halfling entry. It is literally stated there.

No it doesn't. I suppose you are talking about this portion which doesn't say what you think it does.

"And by protecting their own lands, they protect us as well."

All that means is that the humans have cleared out the land and keep it that way, and the Halflings are taking advantage. True protection would be if the humans sent armed forces to defend the villages, which they don't.

3) There are still plenty of threats in the world. Even if you assume there are no monsters, there are still evil cults, despots, bandits, ect. And most of the border regions DO have monsters.

Yep. And the border regions don't have halfling villages. And those threats go after the humans, elves, etc.

Because that is Saturday Morning Cartoon logic. "Nothing bad will happen because the good guys will win the day". That isn't how real people would really react to a threat like that.

No. That's isn't how HUMANS would react to a threat like that. Halflings are not human, so basing how you think they would act on human thought processes is pretty doomed.

You realize that an "army of the dead" doesn't care about things being out of the way, right?

You realize that they're directed by intelligent undead and/or Necromancers who aren't going to have them walk through the middle of nowhere just in case something might be there, right?

I literally cannot relate to an entire race of people that nothing bad ever happens to, that can sip tea as the world burns because they are safe no matter what.

D&D has no such race.

And feel free to say I'm strawmanning or twisting your words, because you never said that "nothing bad ever happens". You don't need to say the the exact words for your intent to be quite clear.

First, I will continue to call you out whenever you Strawman me. Second, you don't get to declare what my intent is. And it isn't what you are twisting my arguments to be.

That tells us everything. Halflings are safe. Nothing bad will happen to them.

No it doesn't.

Did you even read my post or did you just want to level accusations at me? Like I said, he'll probably fight. The problem is he isn't fighting to protect his home. He literally cannot be fighting to protect his home, because his home can never be put in danger. It is too far out of the way, the threat will be over by the time it could even be found, if it even can be found, which it can't.

That has been proven to be false by both me and the lore...................repeatedly. Why do you continue to engage this Strawman?

 

[Bohandas]

Okay, so NONE of those edgelord halflings are realistic. Humanist halflings, the ones with their shires seeking good food and comfort and family. Those ARE realistic.

Hobbit style halflings didn't even make sense in their native setting. They just show up out of nowhere at the end of the Silmarillion.

Because to a lot of us... halflings aren't sucky. Or silly.

The hobbitish ones are, at the very least, physically silly looking, regardless of whatever else they may have going on in terms of silliness or seriousness.

 

[Minigiant]

First, not many half-elves. Second, wandering =/= adventuring.

Don't use that logic.
Because AGAIN as halfling lore is described, halfling lore for leaving home is not a strong motivation to raid tombs for treasure, attack orc hideouts, and slaying dragons.

Hence the problem. wanderlust and curiosity are better motives to wander than be a violent adventurer. D&D is not a game of peaceful adventure. It's violent.

1e Lore: "Half-elves do not form a race unto themselves, but rather they can be found amongst both elvenkind and men. For details of the typical half-elf see ADVANCED DUNGEONS L DRAGONS, MONSTER MANUAL under the heading Elf." - So the typical 1e Half-elf is a 1 hit die creature.

2e Lore: "In general, a half-elf has the curiosity, inventiveness, and ambition of his human ancestors and the refined senses, love of
nature, and artistic tastes of his elven ancestors.

Half-elves do not form communities among themselves; rather, they can be found living in both elven and human communities. The reactions of humans and elves to half-elves ranges from intrigued fascination to outright bigotry." - Still nothing about either wandering or most of them becoming adventurers.

3e Lore: "Half-elves find themselves drawn to strange careers and unusual company. Taking up the life of an adventurer comes easily to many of them. Like elves, they are driven by wanderlust." - "Many" is undefined and could be 5%, 10% or whatever percent of a small number of racial members. Halflings adventurers would still dwarf(see what I did there) the number of Half-elven adventurers out there.

4e Lore: unavailable to me.

5e Lore: "Many half-elves, unable to fit into either society, choose lives of solitary wandering or join with other misfits and outcasts in the adventuring life." - this does not say that many become adventurers. Only that many(again undefined) of the rare half-elves wander or join the adventuring life.

All the lorehints to half elves being outcasts even in human and elven society. IT all hints that occupations that take them outside society or the norm.

BTW 4e: Half-elves rarely settle down for any length of time. Their wanderlust makes them natural adventurers, and they quickly make themselves at home wherever they end up. When their paths take them back to a place they have visited before, they track down old friends and renew old contacts.

The whole gimmick of the whole half elf race is that they always leave home and seek comfot in other weirdos like them.

Um, no. You have no race that is 90% adventurers and you have Halflings which the lore calls out for producing lots of adventurers, so .1% is way too low. I mean, if you invent fictional numbers like that, then you can almost show that Halflings need thousands of times the numbers to make more adventurers. There's no way that even close to 50% of the very, very few Half-elves become adventurers. I would be shocked if it's even as high as 25%.

.1% adventurers is actually too high. An adventurer is a very very very rare occupation. Tombraiding, orcbusting, and dragonslaying without the backup of armies is the life of a crazy person.
That's the whole point. Half elves, half orcs, and tieflings don't fit in normal society. So most of them are drawn to the weirder and stranger occupations.

If there are only 100 of each half elves, half orcs, and tieflings, at least 50% are packing class levels. And that's a low estimate. Why do you think every half elves, half orcs, and tieflings is a secret level 5+ fighter, rogue, or mage or some crap who has a history with some gang or has 11 adventurer friends, half who are dead, or opened a business with their treasure money.

Halflings don't have this push. A wandering halfling might just tour like a normal person.

You might have 3 in the city!

And all 3 are adventurers, active or retired.

 

[Minigiant]

And so you have "millions of halflings doing less than jack squat", just like the millions of humans doing less than jack squat.

This mathiness is silly. Acting like these are actual hypothetical possibilities that could occur organically without some kind of guiding hand.

Millions of Humans do jack squat.
Millions of halflings do less than jack squat.
Because the very very few halflings involve themselves in the world.

Further, this whole concept of "major race" independent of setting is creating a "problem" for the sake of creating it. It's like complaining about how many speaking lines a character has for a play you've yet to write.

No the major race thing is a problem because that's how the majority of tables run their worlds.
Most people run PHB-like setting or setting with assumptions close to it.

And halflings becomes a major race with milions of members who don't actually do anything in the setting and are invisible to the PCs.

 

[Gammadoodler]

You can discuss a specific setting or you can discuss the default lore. This is a discussion about the default lore and the PHB defaults Halflings, Humans, Dwarves and Elves to being the common races, and the rest to being uncommon, though if you read them they are really fairly rare. So while yes, a specific setting can make Elves one in a million and Tieflings common as dirt, the default racial settings gives us some place to start the discussions.

Except we're not talking 'common' or 'uncommon', which are words that have a consistent objective meaning. We're talking 'major' and 'minor' which can have radically different meanings.