D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[Umbran]

But most games, stories, superheroes have good guys and bad guys. We can be somewhat sympathetic and understand what Thanos did and why, but he was still the bad guy. The reason The Joker exists is because he's easily identifiable as the bad guy.

If you have a game that (at least for many people) is about heroes saving the day you need a nemesis, an enemy.

Um... your examples are individuals that don't represent their species. Not all Titans were like Thanos. Most humans are not like the Joker. These examples do not justify making an entire species "the enemy" - quite the opposite, the exampled demonstrate that extreme individuals make good enemies.

There was no need to have entire species be the enemy. That was just a simple approach that the original writers and players didn't see as a problem. It has shown to be less-than-great. It is probably time to retire, rather than justify and defend it.

 

[MGibster]

Tasha’s guide ability to swap about abilities for races including set ability scores

This is the only one I actively dislike. Of the rest of the items on your list, I'm either indifferent to or positive about the changes.

 

[MGibster]

In my own understanding of race, the whole idea of race really became Americanized at the beginning of the slave trade. Those in power in the Americas had to figure out who it was okay to enslave, and who it was not. They needed a legal definition, so they decided to use something called "race" (rather than wealth, or gender, or other factors that had been used to justify owning other humans in the past).

What we know as scientific racism today, or better yet pseudo scientific racism, has its origins in the Enlightenment era among such luminaries as Francois Bernier, Carl Linnaeus, Charles White, and others and I can promise you that none of them were Americans. So, no, our understanding of race wasn't Americanized by the slave trade it was Europeanized.

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[Remathilis]

Of course, this is not universal. But it is systemic. The very existence of Drizzt shows that in order for a Drow to be anything but evil, they have to turn against their whole society.

Now, say this sentence again, but replace Drizzt with "Oskar Schindler" and Drow with "Nazi-era German".

 

[BookTenTiger]

Now, say this sentence again, but replace Drizzt with "Oskar Schindler" and Drow with "Nazi-era German".

Nazi is not defined as a "race." Drow is.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But aren't D&D's orcs directly inspired by Lord of the Rings, which is of British origin?

It's typically British to blame the Americans. How do you think those slaves got to America in the first place?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Culture: Well obviously orcs are only evil because that's the way they were raised. If we only taught those ignorant savages the correct way of speaking, dressing, and proper manners they could be good citizens. Just like the U.S. shipped all those American Indians off to boarding school to "civilize" them. Ugh. No.

Why do you always trot this nonsense out, but never engage with criticism of it?

Allowing orcs to not be evil does not mean assimilation. You are creating a whole extra thing that isn’t actually there, when you make it about like, raising orcs in a human culture, or whatever. Literally no one but you is suggesting that.

The orcs of Eberron, Warcraft, etc, don’t have similar cultures to their human or elf neighbors. They have distinctly orcish cultures, that aren’t evil.

That is what we are talking about.

 

[Oofta]

Um... your examples are individuals that don't represent their species. Not all Titans were like Thanos. Most humans are not like the Joker. These examples do not justify making an entire species "the enemy" - quite the opposite, the exampled demonstrate that extreme individuals make good enemies.

There was no need to have entire species be the enemy. That was just a simple approach that the original writers and players didn't see as a problem. It has shown to be less-than-great. It is probably time to retire, rather than justify and defend it.

True, but every xenomorph from Aliens was effectively evil. Ghouls are evil. In most fiction demons, devils and so on are (effectively) all evil.

I'll keep my evil orcs because
A) Sometimes I'm lazy and just want generic bad guys.
B) They aren't human. They are a completely fictional creature; how their brains work is up to the fiction of the campaign.

Although, as always, I think they should have spelled out that the alignment an culture in the book is just the default. It's there, it's just not front and center like it could be. Some of the verbiage on half-orcs should be fixed, etc. It probably won't matter in my home campaign what they do, orcs will still be evil. Oddly enough nobody has ever encountered an identifiable orc female much less an orc baby or even a juvenile orc.

 

[Remathilis]

Nazi is not defined as a "race." Drow is.

Close enough. If the drow are a stand in for a certain group of humans living on Earth, it stands to reason they can be compared to another group of humans living on Earth.

More to the point though, you've proven my demographics concern. The issue isn't whether all, most, some, or even one group of orcs is evil, it's if all the game ever shows is the evil ones, you aren't doing anything by saying "well, some AREN'T" evil, they're just off camera. If we are really serious about this, we are going to have to treat orcs, goblins, any other sentient race with the same opportunities as elves, dwarves, and halflings. Orc towns are going to have to ask adventurers to defend their town against dwarven bandit. Goblin mages are going to ask PCs to go adventure into forgotten tombs overrun by halflings. You are going to have to make room for orc and goblin towns and kingdoms. The map or Oreth, Faerun, and such are going to have to change.

Anything else is a half-measure.

 

[Oofta]

Why do you always trot this nonsense out, but never engage with criticism of it?

Allowing orcs to not be evil does not mean assimilation. You are creating a whole extra thing that isn’t actually there, when you make it about like, raising orcs in a human culture, or whatever. Literally no one but you is suggesting that.

The orcs of Eberron, Warcraft, etc, don’t have similar cultures to their human or elf neighbors. They have distinctly orcish cultures, that aren’t evil.

That is what we are talking about.

I think blaming orcs being evil on culture is worse than orcs being genetically engineered and supernaturally influenced to be evil. Different campaigns will, and should, treat it differently.

The option is to say that orcs aren't evil but orcs from this region that follow this religion are. Replace orc with a specific ethnicity, region and religion from the real world. I think that's worse.

If you want good vs evil there is no "best" solution. I've decided that orcs being hard-wired evil (and supernaturally influenced by Gruumsh) is the least bad option. Feel free to run it differently in your campaign.