D&D 5E Sell Out: Hasbro and the Soul of D&D

[Zardnaar]

Huh. 2e was considered one of the most successful editions - certainly one of the longest lived ones, which gave us pretty much all the things we consider classic D&D today - the settings, the lore, (Oh, gawds, the stacks and stacks of lore) the evolution from tabletop wargame to hobby.

The only thing that changed in 2e is they got rid of demons. For a couple of years. Then they brought them back.

Yeah, not seeing what you're seeing here.

2E sold about half of 1E and kinda helped bankrupt TSR.

Wasn't generally seen as successful. One of my favorite editions though.

 

[Hussar]

2e had virtually nothing to do with TSR going bankrupt. Totally inept business management had a LOT to do with TSR going bankrupt.

But, frankly, the notion of D&D "selling out" is bizarre. They (as in whoever owned D&D at the time) monetized every single thing they could about the game. They sold character sheets, dice, miniatures, books, and a host of other stuff with the D&D brand on it.

At what point in time wasn't D&D "selling out"?

 

[teitan]

I knew it was over when they started selling D&D action figures.

Wait. That was TSR not Hasbro.

If those characters aren't in the new toyline then Wizkids failed us. At least a Warduke and Strongheart!

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd wager that a Venn Diagram of
1. the people decrying the growing popularity of D&D, and
2. the people who have been called out for 'gatekeeper' behavior,
...is very nearly a circle.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Why buy your RPG from a corp when there's plucky indie companies like EN Publishing who deserve your money more??

 

[Imaculata]

Hasbro moving in, simply means more D&D stuff for all of us. We are under no obligation to buy any of it, but I'm sure it will broaden brand recognition, which can ultimately only be good for D&D's success. And as long as D&D is succesful, that means more products for us to buy. More books, more miniatures, etc.

I've never understood why selling out is such a worry to so many people. When Metallica 'sold out', did it cause the decline of their music, or were they always on the decline anyway? Did George R R Martin sell out with Game of Thrones, and is that why the new book isn't out yet? Or is he just tired of the popularity of his own creation?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

OK, I dont see value in continuing this then. I'm not some art snob, but when you have writers (art) artists (art) and imo designers (game design as art), I do not see how you can say D&D is not an artistic endeavor.

Either way, this isnt a judgment call against people making money. Its a question of if maximizing profit is the most desirable goal of creation.

Well, see here: I write, and I paint, and I design RPG content, and sometimes people give me money for the stuff I make. So I know about "Art", and it's not what you think it is.

There is no such thing as "selling out". There is only making a living by using your talents to entertain people.

 

[Orius]

Like others have said, D&D, or more properly TSR, sold out a long time ago.

And when people start ranting about sticking it to the Man, I start rolling my eyes.

 

[Imaculata]

There is no such thing as "selling out". There is only making a living by using your talents to entertain people.

Agreed. It often sounds like people are just not allowed to capatilize too much on their own success. But if that is the case, where is that line?

Lots of bands start their careers playing in shady bars for tiny crowds, while selling merchandize they made themselves by scribbling their band name on a t-shirt.

When they finally achieve some level of success and buy themselves a tour bus, have they sold out? And why is that bad?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Did George R R Martin sell out with Game of Thrones, and is that why the new book isn't out yet? Or is he just tired of the popularity of his own creation?

Neither. He just wrote himself into a corner by setting out to subvert fantasy tropes. One of those tropes is "has a satisfying conclusion". In real life, stories never end - something Martin's archenemy Tolkien acknowledged.

The TV version had this problem. You can't subvert "has a satisfying conclusion" and still have a satisfying conclusion. Martin's solution is cleverer - die before finishing the last book, so there is no conclusion.