D&D 5E 5e EPIC MONSTER UPDATES

[Upper_Krust]

Can't wait to see what you came up with. I had something I thought bridged the two, but I am struggling to get it finished at the moment.

My original plan was to have two stat blocks. One "exalted" and then an avatar stat block that was like a typical 5e monster. With the mythic updates in Theros I thought I had a simple way to merge the two (hey just add more mythic "stages"). That does work, but my "Immortal Rules" started to diverge more and more from base 5e and made this idea more difficult. I am trying to find a way, but I may go back to having 2 separate stat blocks.

Hey Dave buddy,

Certainly multiple stat blocks is one possible way, that's not the route I am taking in this particular book but its something I might develop in a future book. Keeping the base 5E rules is a must for simplicity and utility.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I think that's a reasonable goal - I certainly enjoyed my old deity-PC AD&D game, here's Upper_Krust's PC Thrin Immortality

I think 5e D&D, unlike 3e, is a pretty good ruleset for that goal. The big trick is to not over-complexify high level PCs with excessive bells & whistles. The 5e approach to both Feats & Boons is excellent IMO. And mortal threats should not be trivialised. Generally, I think players want to be MCU Thor going toe-to-toe with Hel, while still interacting meaningfully with the mortal world. I don't think Mentzer's Immortals Set rules got that quite right, he made the Immortals a bit too powerful compared to even level 36 BECM PCs. 1e AD&D Deities & Demigods stats by contrast are very useable.

Hey S'mon,

how are you able to handle Bill's character now that he has most of the listed epic boons?

I agree you need to keep the Gods within touching distance of Mortals (as in our game). The epic boons set up reminds me of how 1st Ed. AD&D characters would plateau in power after which levelling would only gain a few hit points, caster level and so forth.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Yep, I've seen it before. I found UK when 4e came out and followed him through the end of that edition. I'm glad to see he is going to make some 5e content.

4E would have worked okay for Immortals but ultimately I think it would have had the same problem as 3rd Edition in that infinite levelling doesn't really work.

I have a very basic idea for 5E Immortals (very basic) that I think will work perfectly and its not a level based system.

I think that is true for most people. To really play gods, the game should be different IMO. That is why....

Since Mentzer's Immortals Set was the major inspiration for ASCENSION, it is in a bit of an odd space with regard to 5e. I am constantly wondering how different or more complex it should be compated to basic 5e. I keep moving back and forth on this scale. I actually think having this discussion has helped bring some clarity to my mind in that aspect - thanks!

I'm convinced simplicity is the key for immortal play.

 

[dave2008]

Hey Dave buddy,

Certainly multiple stat blocks is one possible way, that's not the route I am taking in this particular book but its something I might develop in a future book. Keeping the base 5E rules is a must for simplicity and utility.

I think from these conversations with you and Simon, I've decided what I am going to do. I will at least give it a shot and see what people think. Basically one stat block that used for both, but that get's modified when used in Immortal games.

 

[dave2008]

Keeping the base 5E rules is a must for simplicity and utility.

Your probably right, but since I'm not looking to publish anymore I'm probably going to stretch it a bit.

 

[dave2008]

I'm convinced simplicity is the key for immortal play.

Most likely correct, at this point it is more a design exercise than a really game to play I will pull at the thread and see what becomes of it. I can always change if it complete unravels.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I think from these conversations with you and Simon, I've decided what I am going to do. I will at least give it a shot and see what people think. Basically one stat block that used for both, but that get's modified when used in Immortal games.

Will be interesting to see what you come up with Dave.

 

[S'mon]

Hey S'mon,

how are you able to handle Bill's character now that he has most of the listed epic boons?

I agree you need to keep the Gods within touching distance of Mortals (as in our game). The epic boons set up reminds me of how 1st Ed. AD&D characters would plateau in power after which levelling would only gain a few hit points, caster level and so forth.

I'd say Shieldbiter is pretty plateaued now, though he can still gain more hp I think via the +40hp Boon and Toughness Feat. His weapon is still +2, otherwise pretty maxxed on offence. He's hit my AC cap of 30.

I don't have any issues challenging him. He can beat a Great Wyrm Red dragon (from a DM's Guild dragon expansion) but he can't beat (his good friend) Runelord Karzoug's Rune Giant army. He couldn't beat the 6,000 hp, miles long Iso Monster in the Wilderlands either, but that's not really an NPC. Bill certainly still enjoys playing the character, mostly doing missions for Karzoug vs rival Runelords.

 

[dave2008]

I'd say Shieldbiter is pretty plateaued now, though he can still gain more hp I think via the +40hp Boon and Toughness Feat. His weapon is still +2, otherwise pretty maxxed on offence. He's hit my AC cap of 30.

I don't have any issues challenging him. He can beat a Great Wyrm Red dragon (from a DM's Guild dragon expansion) but he can't beat (his good friend) Runelord Karzoug's Rune Giant army. He couldn't beat the 6,000 hp, miles long Iso Monster in the Wilderlands either, but that's not really an NPC. Bill certainly still enjoys playing the character, mostly doing missions for Karzoug vs rival Runelords.

You might toss my Great Wyrm Red Dragon at him. It is a CR 30 mythic monster with a lot of traits to keep it in the fight. Not the Wyrm is CR 30, but if you use the Great Wyrm trait is a "Mythic Encounter" (from the Theros setting if your not familiar).

 

[Upper_Krust]

You might toss my Great Wyrm Red Dragon at him. It is a CR 30 mythic monster with a lot of traits to keep it in the fight. Not the Wyrm is CR 30, but if you use the Great Wyrm trait is a "Mythic Encounter" (from the Theros setting if your not familiar).

Hey Dave mate!

That seems like a crazy number of Traits/Actions etc. Wondering how I would (re)design such a monster. Hmmm.