D&D General Reading Ravenloft the setting

I was just re-reading this in Darklords, the focus as written seems to me to be more about jealousy of their sisters getting something they want without them (a way out of their undesired beginnings) rather than jealousy over wanting his love which none of them really cared about. The write up seems to say they are jealous of anybody's happiness and they will sabotage even their partner sisters' chances for betterment if it means being left behind, and they are each aware the others will try and leave them behind and will sabotage each others' chances at happiness without them. A toxic brew that seems more focused on self and sisters than specifically on men or prettier women.
Unfortunately I lost my Darklords so I don't have access to that entry at the moment and can only go on two decades old memory. But in the black box, they are basically just described as hags. Very little is said about them. In DoD, the more striking characteristic is their cannibalism. It is a little difficult to boil that entry down to one thing. There is mention of a dandy they killed and fueled over, but like you say, even though this was the act that drew them in, it doesn't seem particularly defining. Just prior to that they were killing travelers and feeding them in a stew to their father and brothers. It does mention they can take any form but are never satisfied because they always see each other for the monsters they are. And there seems to be a sort of selfish jealousy at work (which was directed at a man in the case of the dandy but seems like it could be directed at anything). Personally I always liked this domain, and I liked the hags, but they, like most lords really, were background threat, and an explanation for the domains' character.

Something that I think is getting lost in this discussion is that, while the domain lords are important, they really weren't supposed to be the focus of play. People did play ravenloft as 'kill the domain lord' but 99 parent of my adventures never featured the domain lords at all. The ones I do remember running were the likes of Ivana Boritsi, Ivan Dilisnya, Jacqueline Renier, Vlad Drakov, Gabrieller Aderre, Strahd, Adam, and Harkon Lukas. I am sure there were plenty of others I ran, but those are the ones I recall coming up, and I remember enjoying running (my favorite to run was probably Harkon Lukas because he was fun, and Gabrielle Aderre for the reasons I already stated: also both are great characters for masterminding plots that lead to adventures for the players, but don't need to involve a direct confrontation with the domain lord). I feel like Soth came up too, and I've always liked him as a lord, but just can't recall at the moment if he did.
 

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Voadam

Legend
Unfortunately I lost my Darklords so I don't have access to that entry at the moment and can only go on two decades old memory.
Darklords page 38-39
The girls spent most of their time alone together, and that suited them. When the men went to work in the fields, they managed their chores and put together a meager meal for themselves (for they did not eat with the others). Afterward, they plotted. And they schemed. They planned for the day when they would leave the farm behind, and attain better, more luxurious lives. What began as wistful daydreams became dark, heartfelt desires.
But how could they attain gold? The answer came when a stranger, a traveler, came to the door of the farm during a storm one evening. The girls knew this man had a purse because he gave their father a gold piece in exchange for shelter in the stable and a bite to eat.
The farmer and his sons rose early the next morn. Soon after, the visitor came to the kitchen for his breakfast. The girls, just 13, were as ready as seasoned criminals. While Laveeda distracted the traveler, her two sisters attacked him. Leticia struck him between the shoulder blades with an ax, while Lorinda sliced his throat with a sickle. The girls picked the dead man's pockets and uncovered a few additional gold pieces. It was a meager prize, but they had found the whole experience exhilarating.
Burying their victim would be a chore, and none of the young ladies was predisposed to digging. They elected to cook him in a stew, which they would serve to their father and brothers. They had never worked so hard as they did that day. To be rid of the man's horse, they put a barb beneath its saddle, and sent the beast galloping away.
With each subsequent traveler, the girls repeated their grisly attack. But after three years and six victims, they had yet to amass a fortune. Each, on her own, had decided that instead of killing the next man, she would woo him, and convince him to take her away from the farm before the others had a chance to murder him. Each had little intention of remaining with him, but imagined that better opportunities would present themselves in a more populous area.
Before long, when the Mists hung over the land, another victim arrived—a rogue and a dandy. Each girl in turn tried to ply him with her affections. These he accepted, enjoying their little plot. But he had no intention of taking any of them from the farm, and in the presence of the others, he favored them equally.
Each girl was too jealous to allow him to choose a sister and not herself. When Lorinda was entertaining him in the barn, Laveeda spied
on her. Leticia spied on them all. Enraged, each sister vowed to kill the man rather than allow another to have him. And so they did. When the last blow was struck, the man and the farm dissolved. The girls became hags, and found themselves hungry and ugly in the mist-shrouded mountains of Tepest.
Also under their current sketch on page 39:
Like all hags, the sisters hunger for flesh. They hunger for the suffering of their victims even more. They are the masters of cannibalistic cuisine, choosing their fare carefully from the boldest, beefiest knight to the most tender and lovely young bride. The hags hate folk who are good, despise folk who are beautiful or handsome, and are jealous of anyone who is happy and loved. Because the hags find such things unattainable, they punish those who have them.
 

Falkovnia. The land subtlety forgot.

Geography first - Falkovnia is a breadbasket and a big food exporter to all the little coastal domains. The Western half in particular is extremely fertile farmland, as you go east and towards the northern border with Darkon, this shifts into largely untamed forests. In the far eastern side, the land itself starts to crumble into dusty uneliable nothingness as you approach the Shadow Rift. Ecologically, we've back to something a bit more like Darkon, shades of your classic medieval-type fantasy world to go with the medieval society and the extremely medieval attitudes of Drakov. Basilisks, ankhegs, wyverns, manticores, even kobolds are here. Are these the only kobolds in Ravenloft? We even have lost cities and dungeons here - remnants of the place's pre-Ravenloft history, and a deep underground complex where an ancient dwarven kingdom (who are now mummies..) built a prison to stash the monsters they happened on in their tunnelling. This'd almost be a normal place for a D&D game - if it wasn't for the actual people who live here...

The human-built environment is a dump. Frowning square stone brutalist architecture for military buildings, primitive improvised hovels of mud, garbage, wattle-and-daub, and poo for everything and everyone else. Roads - even in the cities - are all corduroy, cut timber stacked upon raw earth in the hope of giving at least some traction when the road gets trodden to mud. I mean, really, a guy like Drakov, who thinks and plans about nothing but war and strategy and logistics all the damn time, has let his only internal lines of communication and transit get and remain in this sort of condition? And if you think the writers are maybe laying the whole 'squalid misery' thing on a bit thick at this point, then baby, you ain't seen nothing yet.

History! We have a page or so describing a history of a glorious kingdom which devolved into a mess of squabbling warlords, iron-fisted tyrants and atrocity, from which Vlad Drakov, originally a mercenary commander, sprang. Even S agrees that most of this is basically irrelevant to modern Ravenloft (other than generating the aforementioned dungeons and lost cities). Drakov's basically ruled Falkovnia for a human lifetime at the point, and the place reflects him every bit as much as Barovia reflects Strahd. In recent history, we have a successful campaign Drakov ran against the wererats within his domain, but it's all downhill for him after that. Multiple invasions of Darkon, all turned back by hordes of undead, even when Azalin was too busy being dead in the wake of the Requiem to manage the defence. Invasions of Lamordia and Dementlieu, turned back by gunpowder arms that Drakob refuses to adopt, and one of Borca, turned back when the entire army made the mistake of being hostile to Borca and then eating the food there. This is obviously Drakov's curse - he wants conquest, but he's doomed to fail every time he tries (especially in circumstances he'd find humiliating - beaten and out-generalled in war by women, wimpy bookish wizards, or weak old men), and it's a spectacularly apt one. Unfortunately, this does have the effect of pulling his teeth a little. In the 'Core as living setting' model of Ravenloft that Arthaus are building, his role is to be the big scary militaristic presence who could at any tie launch an invasion in devastating force - but basically every player is OOC fully aware that if he tries, he'll fail. Somehow. He's a profoundly awful person in every possible way, but he's kind of a figure of fun at the same time. If anyone remembers how Abaddon the Despoiler came across in WH40K lore for such a long time, or the Zhentarim in FR, you get the idea. The perennial loser. Repeated failure just isn't scary. Unless you actually have to go into Falkovnia, Vlad is a bit of a meme. Even S has contempt for the guy. Well, to be fair, S has contempt for most people, but when dealing with the heavy-hitting likes of Strahd, Adam, etc there's at least some wary respect. Not Drakov. It even occurs to me - Drakov is one of the few Darklords who does is not a traditional tragic gothic villain. Strahd was once a brave warrior and hero. Hazlik was persecuted, betrayed, mocked, and his body indelibly marked by people he loved. Adam and Mordenheim have a tragic history, and Mordenheim is a brilliant scientist. Even Azalin is widely supported by his subjects for being a strong ruler in a dangerous place. Tristen apBlanc's past is littered with misunderstandings and might-have beens. Nor Drakov. There's no compelling backstory, no tragic pivotal moment of choice or passion in which he damned himself. He was a murderous jerk who was imprisoned in Ravenloft for being a murderous jerk and continued his career of murder and jerkitude once he got there.

Falkovnian society is basically a conglomeration of all the most awful and depressing bits of every murderously militaristic totalitarian regime ever, so much that it actually gets monotonous. There's plenty of Hitler here (Drakov's title is 'Kingfuhrer' and he's obviously being set up as Ravenloft Hitler as opposed to Stalin Azalin with quasi-British Mordent etc off to one side), a bit of Vlad the Impaler, North Korea, some of the worst medieval/dark age tropes, you name it. Slavery, genocide by work of nonhumans, cholera, gladiatorial combat, conscription, forced labor, draconian oppression and punishments, poverty, starvation while a rich agricultural sector exports food, massed impalings, droit de signeur, extortionate taxation and corruption, heaps of dead babies by the side of the road, everyone getting branded as the ruler's property at birth, roadblocks and 'I vill see your papers, pigdog, schnell, schnell!', a leader who has torturous executions as a scenic backdrop to his mealtimes and whose sexual predilections are described as 'unspeakable'. It just goes on and on. I 100% get that the whole idea of this place is that humans can be the worst monsters etc etc, but ... too much, too unsubtle, too much of Cartoon Bad Guy Kitchen Sink.

What we do have here is another domain that isn't entirely magic-unfriendly, however. There's a state-run Ministry of the Arcane that'll keep tabs on wizards and sorcerers, but frankly that's not much different to what the state does to anyone else. It's going to be hard to justify stuff like spellbooks, bardic instruments, libraries of obscure lore, alchemy or scrollscribing equipment etc in a domain where having two blankets is a luxury to most, however. Clerics of various varieties are tolerated and their healing abilities welcomed, although there's an odd lack of religious conviction or motivation - given how bad things are for basically everyone, wouldn't people look to the afterlife, or the teachings of a god who grants prayers to help them? Even among the resistance movements this seems to be the case. Probably a bit of the darklord-shaping-the-domain thing happening here. Drakov is basically toxic masculinity with legs and spellcasting is weak and girly and not what Real Men do, and as is sometimes the case it seems his attitude bleeds into the populace even when it might not make much outward sense.

Bit of a worldbuilding/editing glitch - Drakov is listed here as refusing to adopt firearms for his forces (again, he sees them as insufficiently manly when compared to melee weapons), but in the previous section we heard about him buying arms from technologically-advanced Lamordia. Surely arms from Lamordia mean firearms? (Unless the tiny population there keeps a swordsmithing industry running especially to sell obsolete weapons they don't use themselves to a nation that is perfectly capable of making them already...)

All Falkovnian-born non-humans are chattel slaves here, canonically bound to military authtority and assigned the worst and most gruelling physical labor until they die, which doesn't make it any easier to run a 'standard' D&D adventuring party here. Human Falkovnians are encouraged to have children with half-elves though, to 'breed out the taint'. Ick.

We then have a bit of a summary of the major cities. There's some effort made here to insert plot-hooks that aren't directly related to Vlad and the military, which is a relief but which can be a bit questionable since it's hard to imagine a model of D&D campaign that would actually ever use these, given the nature of the rest of the place. The military is portrayed as omnipresent and all-intrusive, but then we have all these cosy little mysterious shops, and occult detectives and so on? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course, bribery and corruption is also endemic here so maybe all this is operating under the noses of officers who overlook lawbreaking if they get their cut. Some of the plothooks are a bit meh (the vampyre infestation of the upper class of Lekar), some are inevitably tied to Drakov (the real fiendish parentage of his apparent son Vigo), while some are more interesting. I do like the giant winged eel that recently emerged from the gorgeously picturesque alpine lake overlooked by Vlad's impaling-pole-festooned summer palace, the extremely creepy-sounding description of the tunnels of H'rakizuhm that miners sometimes creak into, and the crumbling warehouse in Stangengrad that hides a vast and obscure clockwork mechanism of unknown origin.

Wow, the NPCs here are HIGH level. After Kartakass, where we're assuming that Ravenloft is a low-level setting where a dire boar is a real danger to life and limb, we then get here and see things like the head of the military academy who's a fighter 15/rogue 4/aristocrat 1, or the thieves guild leader in Lekar who's a 16th level rogue but a rank 4 ancient dead (mummy) into the bargain, which is a pretty daunting prospect. And this isn't Vlad or his inner circle. These are people who could, in a white-room scenario, probably crush many Darklords, but here they don't even get a serious write-up. I assume the reasoning is that if you're campaigning in Falkovnia you want the sense of oppression and brutality and the overwhelming power of the blood-soacked military, and for the PCs to be underdogs, hunted and threatened and overpowered at every turn and reliant on wits to survive - but jeez it seems like a blunt instrument.

As far as a setting goes, Falkovnia seems very focused on the Ravenloft-as-living-world model. You COULD run a weekend-in-hell here, but the best way i can think of doing it would be a survival or resistance model. Stay alive for time X, rescue your gnome friend from the prison camp etc. Endure, evade, and survive, rather than overthrow and triumph. It's not like Lamordia or Barovia where there's a single Darklord-centric story that ties the place together. Vlad doesn't have any gothic secrets to uncover, or a dark past to unearth. He is exactly what he appears to be. Sure, you could get a bunch of high-level PCs together and have a big combat-fest where you kick his door down and whack the guy, but that's not exactly Ravenlofty. He's almost deliberately meant to be boringly human in his evil (I can't quite talk about the Banality of Evil here, because he's written as being enthusiastically evil in almost every way imaginable) - a sort of 'humans are the real monsters' trope. But that has the side-effect of making him, well, a bit boring. The horror of Falkovnia isn't about Drakov himself, it's about what regular Falkovnians, army officers, soldiers, slavedrivers, torturers, etc - become in a regime like this.

On a side note, I'd love to see a domain in the new Ravenloft where the Darklord isn't some towering flamboyant exemplar of evil, but an obscure grey little bureacrat, anonymous in the system, who justifies his participation in and contribution to massed industrial-scale atrocity with 'I'm just doing my job'. Surely the Dark Powers are capricious enough to do that?

Anyway, Falkovnia is basically being redrawn from the ground up as the zombie apocalypse domain in 5e, and to be honest, I'm reasonably ok with that. It serves a definite purpose in the Core model of Ravenloft, but if you've decided to get rid of that, it's a bit lost. Drakov is defined by his desire to wage aggressive war and dominate. If he's marooned on an island in the mist, sure he'd find it frustrating and it would actually be a fairly apt curse for him, but he's a bit out of place. The oppressive police state theme for a domain isn't a bad one, but again, if (speculating...) 5e assumes the point of Ravenloft is to face and defeat Darklords, it's questionable. The scary bit about being in a police state is its faceless intrusive ubiquity and your own helplessness, having a standout Darklord and kicking his head in doesn't really fit too well with that.

Random character generator this time gave me druid, which was a tough one. There's no druids discussed here, but on the other hand, they're not actively shunned like Lamordia, so it's not completely implausible. So this is an enslaved half-elf put to work in Falkovnian grain fields and whose druidic talent allowed her to improve productivity enough that the camp head decided to maybe keep her alive a bit longer because it gives him more surplus to sell curruptly on the black market. Alas, i can't do either facial branding or dirty skin/clothing, both of which she would certainly have, in Heroforge. Neither is there a proper option for cropped hair. And yes, given the discussion from the past day or so I'm aware this is the second enslaved female PC I've done. I'm deliberately alternating genders for PCs and that's just the way things have panned out so far. It's the last one, I promise!

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That's the end of Gazetteer II, next we move on to Dementlieu.
 
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Voadam

Legend
rescue your gnome friend from the prison camp etc.
That was the Falkovnian background of two of the PCs in one of the Ravenloft campaigns I ran. A smuggler/drug dealing gnome psionicist and the ex-soldier and combat drug taking human fighter who rescued him and deserted. Both had the forehead tattoos. Both swore never to go back.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Anyway, Falkovnia is basically being redrawn from the ground up as the zombie apocalypse domain in 5e, and to be honest, I'm reasonably ok with that.

Nuuuuuuuu... Don't you know that Drakov was from the Black Box and therefore perfect?

Honestly, I always found this domain boring in the generic write-ups in the box sets. Vlad the Impaler and his military police state. However, the writeup in 3e feels very edgelord in the worst possible way. There is no way you could have nonhuman concentration camps, chattel slavery, and elements of racial purity in a 5e D&D book and not have huge controversy in thier hands.

I for one welcome our new zombie overlords.
 

Nuuuuuuuu... Don't you know that Drakov was from the Black Box and therefore perfect?

Honestly, I always found this domain boring in the generic write-ups in the box sets. Vlad the Impaler and his military police state. However, the writeup in 3e feels very edgelord in the worst possible way. There is no way you could have nonhuman concentration camps, chattel slavery, and elements of racial purity in a 5e D&D book and not have huge controversy in thier hands.

I for one welcome our new zombie overlords.

Hey, the black box set was the best thing in the line. Don't hate the messenger :)

Seriously though I think we just have strikingly different taste on this. No interest in Falkovnia as zombie land. I really liked Falkovnia as it was written in the black box, and I liked the brevity of text there (like I said one of the things I enjoyed as a Ravenloft GM early on was filling in the void myself and using the bare bones content as a launching pad (whether in prep or on the fly). It was just a setting that instantly made sense to me in that format and presentation. But as the setting grew, like a lot of TSR settings at the time (and I suppose like a lot of later WOTC settings too) the canon was just too sprawling for my taste). That is just preference though.
 

There is no way you could have nonhuman concentration camps, chattel slavery, and elements of racial purity in a 5e D&D book and not have huge controversy in thier hands.

Maybe, but I think that doesn't trust the audience enough to understand this is obviously meant to depict these things as horrific and bad (Falkovnia was certainly not an endorsement of those things). In many ways they were closer to home in the 90s when it came out. Most of us had grandparents who fought in the war in question, many of us had family impacted by those events, many were impacted by things like pogroms as well etc. I know in my group it was some of those personal connections for people that made a domain like Falkovnia resonate more. I can totally understand the hesitancy of WOTC to tackle that kind of subject matter. I do think though, horror is meant to be, horrifying. Not saying I am right here, I am older and maybe my sensibilities and my lines are just different than a younger audience. I just know, and maybe it is because of my age and because we were raised on a lot of overly wholesome, very special episode type entertainment, that I generally feel more insulted when movies, books, games or shows shield me from these kinds of things. I do think though with Falkovnia it dealt with this things a little more vaguely at first than it did in later iterations (in my mind Drakov kind of starts out a little more like a Stalin and slowly becomes Hitler like figure). In my own campaign I did advance the timeline at one point and have a sort of WWI/WWII scenario where Drakov was at the center (it was basically WWII but with more WWI technology and tactics for aesthetic reasons, so I could have biplanes and no-mans land). Honestly I'd be interested to see how people feel about this kind of content and if that is something that would bother gamers today. I am pretty comfortable no longer being the target audience, and content with the old 2E books, so it doesn't really impact me which direction they go (unless they went so far back to the source material, that it won me over to 5E or something).
 

Darklords page 38-39

Also under their current sketch on page 39:

Thanks. I like this entry. I remembered liking their entry in the Darklord book but was so hazy on the details. That to me is horrifying, and it is great take on three evil sisters/hags/witches. I think the cannibalism especially is one of the things that made them work. They are not terribly original. But I think characters like this are not necessarily meant to be....they are just trying to capture certain tropes. But this has the pop-off the page quality I look for in villainous NPCs.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Maybe, but I think that doesn't trust the audience enough to understand this is obviously meant to depict these things as horrific and bad (Falkovnia was certainly not an endorsement of those things). In many ways they were closer to home in the 90s when it came out. Most of us had grandparents who fought in the war in question, many of us had family impacted by those events, many were impacted by things like pogroms as well etc. I know in my group it was some of those personal connections for people that made a domain like Falkovnia resonate more. I can totally understand the hesitancy of WOTC to tackle that kind of subject matter. I do think though, horror is meant to be, horrifying. Not saying I am right here, I am older and maybe my sensibilities and my lines are just different than a younger audience. I just know, and maybe it is because of my age and because we were raised on a lot of overly wholesome, very special episode type entertainment, that I generally feel more insulted when movies, books, games or shows shield me from these kinds of things. I do think though with Falkovnia it dealt with this things a little more vaguely at first than it did in later iterations (in my mind Drakov kind of starts out a little more like a Stalin and slowly becomes Hitler like figure). In my own campaign I did advance the timeline at one point and have a sort of WWI/WWII scenario where Drakov was at the center (it was basically WWII but with more WWI technology and tactics for aesthetic reasons, so I could have biplanes and no-mans land). Honestly I'd be interested to see how people feel about this kind of content and if that is something that would bother gamers today. I am pretty comfortable no longer being the target audience, and content with the old 2E books, so it doesn't really impact me which direction they go (unless they went so far back to the source material, that it won me over to 5E or something).
Think of it this way: WotC is trying to write this book to a PG/PG-13 audience. Falkovia is a Hard R. There might be a place for a setting that handles the mature topics Falkovia embodies, but I don't believe WotC is the people to do it. They are Marvel now: toned down for general consumption. It's the price paid for it's large popularity and widespread success.

WotC is putting a primer on hard and soft limitations on horror in the book to discuss tailoring horror to the audience and respecting thier boundaries. They're not putting Holocaustville in as a setting.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Most people need a family in order to be happy, irrespective of gender.
And yet, there's still the prevailing trope that women capital-N Need a man or child or else are incomplete. It's not that they would be unhappy; it's that women are literally thought to be not full people without a man or child. And the secondary belief, that women are catty and hate each other.

And this wouldn't be so bad except that is the only aspect of the female Darklord's backstory. Quick: What's Ivana Boritsi doing with her days? Throwing parties to distract herself from the fact she's miserable without a man. What did Gabrielle Aderre do before she got ousted by her son? She threw parties, broke up happy relationships out of jealousy, and tried to kill off the Vistani because she blamed them for not being able to have a happy relationship.

What does Dominic d'Honaire do when he's not pining after women? He helps to run the political government while also maintaining his mental control over the populace. What does Strahd Von Zoravich do when he's not pining after Tatyana? He apparently does magical research, makes sure his country is running smoothly, etc.
 

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