D&D 5E The Dual Wielding Ranger: How Aragorn, Drizzt, and Dual-Wielding Led to the Ranger's Loss of Identity

[Minigiant]

Aragorn can heal (because he is a king) but he can't speak to animals, speak to plants, or survive extreme temperatures.

Dar can speak to animals but he can't speak to plants or survive extreme temperatures.

In order to "have something in common" it requires more than one instance...

Who TF is Rexxar?!

There are more that one instance of nature heroes talking to animals and plants and healing.

And it makes sense as rangers fought alone and didn't have clerics to patch them up or druids to talk for them. Especially in older editions where natural healing was slow and wilderness allies were limited.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I'm curious what you feel is missing in the current Cavalier options?

It's boring and weird. It doesn't feel like a knight - they wanted to jam certain mechanics in and ignored the "class fantasy" (or archetype fantasy I guess) to do so. It's also a mediocre subclass for a class that has some superb ones.

The only thing it really has going for it, and I do appreciate this, is unlike previous versions of Cavalier, it doesn't really sacrifice anything for what it gets from being mounted. That is smart, and I respect that. But "Defend-y Bro" isn't the vibe for this archetype - this is like a "Shieldmaster" or something, not a Cavalier.

the WOW ranger is a direct descendent of the end one so it has much the same problem as the drow whose name I can't spell.

No.

The WoW Hunter, even on initial implementation in 2004, is massively more internally coherent and directed as a class than the D&D Ranger, and it's not a "direct descendent" of the D&D Ranger at all. It's a generalized descendent of various ranged classes and characters from various RPGs and games (particularly WC3).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This makes it sound like his "hardiness" was a feature of having gained quite a few levels over the course of his journeys, not just being born with a high constitution score.

I think Tolkien is trying to use "hardy" to generally indicate "capable of surviving on any terrain because he knows how to endure, what measures to take", rather than like "literally resistant to cold/fire" here, though.

 

[Undrave]

It's boring and weird. It doesn't feel like a knight - they wanted to jam certain mechanics in and ignored the "class fantasy" (or archetype fantasy I guess) to do so. It's also a mediocre subclass for a class that has some superb ones.

The only thing it really has going for it, and I do appreciate this, is unlike previous versions of Cavalier, it doesn't really sacrifice anything for what it gets from being mounted. That is smart, and I respect that. But "Defend-y Bro" isn't the vibe for this archetype - this is like a "Shieldmaster" or something, not a Cavalier.

Oh I see. What would you like a Cavalier to have then?

 

[Undrave]

Well now rangers are seen as

1. Protecting civilization from nature
2. Protecting nature from civilization
3. Protecting natural civilization from urban or rural civilization
4. Protecting fey civilization from nonfey civilization
5. Protecting non fey civilization from fey
6. Protecting civilization from barbarians
7. Protecting barbarians from civilization
8. Protecting the king's or lords land
9. Protecting themselves and their family.
10. Protection civilization from demons
11. Protection civilization from lone monsters
12. Everything in between

So the Ranger lives on a frontier between two forces? Rangers are just fantasy border patrol.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Oh I see. What would you like a Cavalier to have then?

Challenges - like formal call-out challenges of enemies for sure. I know there's a lot of stuff like this, including a spell, but I'd like to see it as a major class mechanic, preferably one which doesn't require a save, but if the enemy disobeys it, they get mean penalties until the encounter is over. The mounted combat mechanics here are fine - any mounted combat stuff should be in addition to rather than instead of other abilities. Some sort of ability to really throw yourself into the fray and live - I dunno exactly what mechanics I'd favour here, but rather than being Captain Bodyguard like this dude, you should be leading the charge. A meaner charge mechanic would be good too - this one is bit meh - yeah it's cool that it works on foot, but the chances of it working are limited - and yeah, sure you can technically use it every turn, but let's be real - that's not going to happen - indeed, you'll be lucky to use it twice a fight - and it's 15th level, where most monsters will have pretty decent STR saves, so it's unlikely to work very well. I'd prefer to see something maybe limited by proficiency times/day, but which let you knock people aside to get to a target (much more knightly), and maybe had a better chance of working - I mean it is nice that it lands before you attack, but I think knocking people aside would be key - this is again more shieldmaster-y because it's like you run at them and slam them with the shield, rather than being this knight-dude.

I feel like they were trying to help 4E players out a bit here, and despite being one, that it was the wrong way to do it.

 

[Mind of tempest]

So the Ranger lives on a frontier between two forces? Rangers are just fantasy border patrol.

now that just makes them even less cool.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

now that just makes them even less cool.

I think that was the point.

 

[Undrave]

The fact that you can subvert a trope doesn't make it not a trope.

It's pretty much the opposite! You can't subvert a trope that hasn't been established!

 

[Mind of tempest]

I think that was the point.

and I am commander obvious wants again, I suck that this.