I Love Old School Games

[Umbran]

But I'm right there with you about going back to the roots. If nothing else I think it's a valuable exercise for modern players who want to increase the pace of their games, learn how to adjudicate and make on the fly calls again, and really think creatively again.

We will chalk up the implication that creativity is somehow more the province of traditional D&D forms as a matter of poor wording, because it it were intentional, that would be insulting, and call for red text, which nobody wants.

Creativity is aided not by "old school" gaming in particular, but by breadth of perspective in gaming, by breaking out of your norms, and exposing you to new things. Modern players would be aided by doing a stint playing old school, and old school would likewise be aided by getting their heads out of the past, and into some new stuff.

 

[nevin]

I just bought Gamma World 1E on a whim -- I am prepping to run Modiphius' Fallout 2d20 RPG so I have post-apocalyptic on the brain -- and man I love the Old School vibe of game design. It is concise and thematic and esoteric and Gm facing and complete in 60-odd pages. As much as there are things about modern RPGs, both in design and aesthetic, that I like, they feel bloated and unwieldy and overwrought at times. Even OSR games fail at this, turning games like B/X (100 pages combined) into 2 or 3 times that length for no real benefit.

So, yeah -- old school games are really great.

A lot of good ones. My favorite Gamma World was 2e. But the release was so messed up and had so much errata I understand why most people never played it. I loved how fast and smooth it played.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I concede that this thread was a failure and that celebrating the successes of the early works of the hobby is less compelling than pedantic arguments and goal tending. Congratulations.

I appreciate the attempt! Of course, this is the internet, and by posting something, you will get those who disagree with what you wrote, those who disagree with you while ignoring what you wrote, and those who just want to argue ... because, hey, #winning.

When it comes to the older games (the first generation), it is interesting to look back at them and how I reacted to them at the time, as opposed to now. There was a period (we can call it the 80s) when I used to think that, for the most part, increasing rules density and expansion was the hallmark of good game design- after all, B/X was simple, and Advanced D&D was, well, Advanced. More stuff, more advanced.

I wanted to be ADVANCED! Who wants to be ... basic. YA BASIC!

And yet, looking back, I truly appreciate the simplicity of systems that people designed back then. Star Frontiers instead of Traveler - and my, the incredibly fast and simple Knight Hawks space battles. The ease of Gamma World 1e. The fast pace of Paranoia. The quick games in Ghostbusters. The simplicity of resolving action using Marvel FASERIP. And, of course, how well Moldvay and Cook wrote the B/X set. Just genius!

I'd contrast that to the games that just didn't work out. Like GURPS. Or Phoenix Command. Living Steel. Rolemaster. Ars Magica (1e). There was a tendency to add more and more complexity.

I realize that I just kept adding table tricks to streamline my own play of 1e; it was very much a DIY creation that evolved over time to move away from rules that obstructed the flow of the game.

So, yes, I join you in celebrating the classics of that time! I do hope that there is an official release of Gamma World and Star Frontiers at some point under the 5e system, but I do find it distasteful that so many people have to pile on you and lecture you because you had the temerity to suggest you enjoyed Gamma World 1e.

 

[Retreater]

We will chalk up the implication that creativity is somehow more the province of traditional D&D forms as a matter of poor wording, because it it were intentional, that would be insulting, and call for red text, which nobody wants.

Creativity is aided not by "old school" gaming in particular, but by breadth of perspective in gaming, by breaking out of your norms, and exposing you to new things. Modern players would be aided by doing a stint playing old school, and old school would likewise be aided by getting their heads out of the past, and into some new stuff.

Correct. Sorry about the poor word choice. You said it much better.

 

[Umbran]

And yet, looking back, I truly appreciate the simplicity of systems that people designed back then. Star Frontiers instead of Traveler - and my, the incredibly fast and simple Knight Hawks space battles. The ease of Gamma World 1e. The fast pace of Paranoia. The quick games in Ghostbusters. The simplicity of resolving action using Marvel FASERIP. And, of course, how well Moldvay and Cook wrote the B/X set. Just genius!

I'd contrast that to the games that just didn't work out. Like GURPS.

Looks at Steve Jackson Games site and their most recent release for GURPS being last month, and wondering exactly what "not working out" means.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Looks at Steve Jackson Games site and their most recent release for GURPS being last month, and wondering exactly what "not working out" means.

Unable to sustain a campaign, despite enjoying the complexity of the rules and ruleset at the time. Some of the supplements (such as the AADA Car Wars Guides) were incredibly fun, but the mechanics of the game just didn't work for the table. It was better to read and raid for ideas than to play.

 

[Umbran]

Unable to sustain a campaign, despite enjoying the complexity of the rules and ruleset at the time. Some of the supplements (such as the AADA Car Wars Guides) were incredibly fun, but the mechanics of the game just didn't work for the table. It was better to read and raid for ideas than to play.

So, "didn't work out for you, personally", not a statement on the system's success overall.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So, "didn't work out for you, personally", not a statement on the system's success overall.

That's correct. I was contrasting my thought process at the time (complexity = better) with the actual experience.

There was a period (we can call it the 80s) when I used to think that, for the most part, increasing rules density and expansion was the hallmark of good game design

 

[Arilyn]

Some of the games being celebrated as Old School today, were considered cutting edge and taking RPGs in bold or disastrous directions, depending on your take. Just makes me smile.

 

[Bluenose]

Any definition of "old school" that includes games from 1999 is pretty useless.

Also, the "What About AD&D!" line of argument in this thread is perplexing, since I didn't mention AD&D, and OD&D and B/X D&D -- both concise, if not clear -- are much more often pointed to as "old school D&D."

Lejendary Adventures, by one E Gary Gygax, came out in 1999. Old-fashioned even then, though certainly not concise.

T&T has avoided the OSR movement largely by being still in print.

I think it, like Runequest and Traveller and many others, hasn't had an "OSR" because the current rules aren't so different from the original as to make it hard to convert (some versions of Traveller, otoh!?!). If you've got a copy of the LBB then you don't need much to understand Mongoose Traveller; if you've got Runequest 2e then Runequest: Adventures in Glorantha won't seem too strange to you; if your last experience with D&D was with Moldvay Basic then D&D 5e isn't so familiar in mechanics.