D&D 5E Warlocks or: What even is class fluff?

[Neonchameleon]

I came to the realisation recently that using the Warlock class I could play using the fluff of four of the other primary casting classes:

• I could get most of my learning reading Books Man Was Not Meant to Know and hunting down (ritual) spells for my Book of Arcane Secrets to be one of the most versatile casters in the game: Wizard
• I could have a Celestial patron and provide light and healing magic (isn't this what the Celestial Pact is for?): Cleric
• I could be a charisma based caster specialising in illusions and, thanks to the Archfey, Charm while I am perfectly charming to everyone around me. If I take an instrument proficiency isn't this a Bard?
• I can be a charisma-based caster whose magic doesn't follow the normal rules but is powered by internal strength (which is why I'm so dependent on rests): Sorcerer

Of course this just tells me I need to write a Primordial patron to pseudo-druid.

 

[Stormonu]

I think my Goliath Hexblade is actually a better woodsman than the Ranger.

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[Krachek]

There is some thread active on class identity.
Your concern are right, there is a lot of subclass and features that allow to flirt with the identity of another class. Warlock patron, cleric domain, sorcerer divine soul, rogue scout, paladin have oath that fill the range from chaotic good to lawful evil. Maybe it’s only 2021, class identity must be fluid now!
Old assumption are no more valid, he is a paladin, he will surely help us, may be a fatal error!
Dont trust him he is a warlock, oh wait, damn, he heal better than a cleric.
Before knowing a npc we will need a complete interview.

 

[jmartkdr2]

This is one of the reasons why I like warlocks so much. I can play a bunch of different concepts without the dull mechanics normally tied to them.

 

[Steampunkette]

I came to the realisation recently that using the Warlock class I could play using the fluff of four of the other primary casting classes:

• I could get most of my learning reading Books Man Was Not Meant to Know and hunting down (ritual) spells for my Book of Arcane Secrets to be one of the most versatile casters in the game: Wizard
• I could have a Celestial patron and provide light and healing magic (isn't this what the Celestial Pact is for?): Cleric
• I could be a charisma based caster specialising in illusions and, thanks to the Archfey, Charm while I am perfectly charming to everyone around me. If I take an instrument proficiency isn't this a Bard?
• I can be a charisma-based caster whose magic doesn't follow the normal rules but is powered by internal strength (which is why I'm so dependent on rests): Sorcerer

Of course this just tells me I need to write a Primordial patron to pseudo-druid.

I meeeeean... >.>

If you wanna do an Ocean Druid there's the Kraken. And a Storm Druid? Fathomless.

This is one of the reasons why I like warlocks so much. I can play a bunch of different concepts without the dull mechanics normally tied to them.

Kinda Sorta, yup!

Like Sorcerer to Wizard, Warlock is largely a bunch of distinct mechanical choices that lend themselves well to a variety of concepts.

Personally I'd have liked a bit more "Curse Magic" tied to the class, myself... Give 'em some kind of core class fantasy as, y'know, witches and warlocks.

 

[Stalker0]

It can be argued that one of the most important things a RPG system should be good at is translating a character "archetype" into the game. so the idea that multiple classes can establish the same archetype is fine, as long as the "off brand" one doesn't over shadow the main guy.

Take the Warlock-"Wizard" vs the regular wizard. Sure the warlock can do the scholarly pursuits archetype, does it beat the wizard in all ways....no, so that's perfectly fine.

Nothing wrong with different flavors of ice cream, its when the off brand brings in the klondike bar that we have a problem

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

This is one of the things I love about the Warlock so much. It's only real class identity that is true throughout the subclasses is that you got your magic through making a pact with an otherworldly being. The being can be otherworldly, as in literally from another world, or it can be otherworldly by just having more power than a being from this world probably should have access to. IMHO, some of the subclasses are actually too restricting in theme. The Celestial Patron is too "goody-two-shoes", even though there are plenty of deities, celestials, and divine entities that don't have any healing abilities. What if you want to play a Celestial Warlock who made a pact with an Archon or Paladin, who instead of using their divine power to heal others, they use it to smite and destroy the undead? The Hexblade Warlock is very specific to a certain type of powerful sentient weapon, the type connected to undead and cursing others. What about a Warlock that serves a sentient dwarven weapon who uses their magic to protect others?

Sorcerers are similar, especially the Divine Soul subclass. I tend to think of Sorcerers and Warlocks as not following the typical arcane magic, the classes can have a lot more diversity in their abilities than a Wizard, but are less versatile individually, choosing their niche early on and sticking to that one.

Class identity is loose, and for a good reason. It allows for much more customization and diversity in possible character archetypes than if the game were restricted to "Paladins are lawful-good, holy do-gooders" and "Rangers are Bow-and-Arrow woodsmen that hunt animals". Those themes and characters do have a place in their parent classes, but they don't deserve to take up all of the design space in the class. There's nothing wrong with having a War Domain Cleric in the same game as Paladin class, so long as you make sure to provide both fluff and mechanical reasons for both of them existing (in this case, War Clerics worship War deities or the concept of War, while Paladins swear an oath that they must uphold to gain their power. Paladin's power comes from themselves through their devotion to their tenets, while a Cleric's power comes from the divine entity that they worship).

 

[jmartkdr2]

This is one of the things I love about the Warlock so much. It's only real class identity that is true throughout the subclasses is that you got your magic through making a pact with an otherworldly being. The being can be otherworldly, as in literally from another world, or it can be otherworldly by just having more power than a being from this world probably should have access to. IMHO, some of the subclasses are actually too restricting in theme. The Celestial Patron is too "goody-two-shoes", even though there are plenty of deities, celestials, and divine entities that don't have any healing abilities. What if you want to play a Celestial Warlock who made a pact with an Archon or Paladin, who instead of using their divine power to heal others, they use it to smite and destroy the undead? The Hexblade Warlock is very specific to a certain type of powerful sentient weapon, the type connected to undead and cursing others. What about a Warlock that serves a sentient dwarven weapon who uses their magic to protect others?

One could argue that 4e DnD is just trying to make a game with all warlocks (including a null patron for martials). I still think the idea deserves more explorations.

Mechanically, it's just a great class.

 

[Ancalagon]

I don't think it will ever happen, but I would love to have a party where everyone is a non traditional way to fill the roll... the paladin is a hexblade, the priest is a divine sorcerer, the blaster is a fire priest, the ranger is a scout rogue, etc etc.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

There is some thread active on class identity.
Your concern are right, there is a lot of subclass and features that allow to flirt with the identity of another class. Warlock patron, cleric domain, sorcerer divine soul, rogue scout, paladin have oath that fill the range from chaotic good to lawful evil. Maybe it’s only 2021, class identity must be fluid now!
Old assumption are no more valid, he is a paladin, he will surely help us, may be a fatal error!
Dont trust him he is a warlock, oh wait, damn, he heal better than a cleric.
Before knowing a npc we will need a complete interview.

I love that about this edition. It means that if you want a certain role or theme, but hate the mechanics of the 'classic' class for it, there are other options for you to go to.

It makes characters a lot less 1 dimensional too.