What is the point of GM's notes?

[Ovinomancer]

As the risk of being laconic: GM decides based on a number of factors (bias, tables, extrapolations...etc)

This isn't any different from a number of other approaches that don't claim to create a "living world." It is, in fact, a common theme to all RPGs that feature a GM -- at some point, they use their judgement to make a decision. If this is the explanation, it holds little explanatory power.

 

[prabe]

This isn't any different from a number of other approaches that don't claim to create a "living world." It is, in fact, a common theme to all RPGs that feature a GM -- at some point, they use their judgement to make a decision. If this is the explanation, it holds little explanatory power.

I think the explanatory power you're looking for might be that someone claiming to run a "living world" is probably saying they track changes in things the PCs haven't encountered. That seems a lot like what was described way upthread as "setting solitaire" to me, but I'm not opposed to GMs getting their fun as they see fit.

 

[Emerikol]

Sorry, what? You're objecting to the idea that something in your notes might not exist in the game-world because you haven't haven't established in-game that it does? You really think you can blame the word fiction for that? Or are you objecting to the idea that something that hasn't arisen in play hasn't been established.

There is a lot that exists in the game world that won't change. Even if there is a small subset of things that theoretically might change. So we view that stuff as established just like events the PCs are involved in.

So dungeons and further detailing of a world goes on as the game progresses but it's built on what already exists. So if I decide to use the campaign world for another campaign after the first one ends, I may create a whole new sandbox in another place and the dungeons in that sandbox may not have existed earlier. I am not though changing the world wholesale though as that to me is established.

 

[Emerikol]

So maybe to better explain
1. Living World - That which has been established as truth in a campaign setting
2. The Fiction - That which as been revealed through play to the group

Those two circles do not have to overlap perfectly. I think this is some of the pushback on terms. I'm fine with using "the fiction" to mean what you say though honestly I wouldn't have take that term myself. But you can't say that #1 has to overlap #2 for everyone. It may overlap in a Story Now game and that may be a characteristic of Story Now play. It may be a characteristic of other styles of play. It doesn't have to be though.

 

[prabe]

There is a lot that exists in the game world that won't change. Even if there is a small subset of things that theoretically might change. So we view that stuff as established just like events the PCs are involved in.

So dungeons and further detailing of a world goes on as the game progresses but it's built on what already exists. So if I decide to use the campaign world for another campaign after the first one ends, I may create a whole new sandbox in another place and the dungeons in that sandbox may not have existed earlier. I am not though changing the world wholesale though as that to me is established.

As someone running two different campaigns (with in-world start-dates six months apart) in different parts of the same setting, this makes some sense to me. The stuff that's in the player-facing documents (or that either party has encountered) is established. The stuff that's not in those documents, which no one has encountered, isn't. I know I prep more in a just-in-time way than you do, but that doesn't seem like a vast chasm between us, there.

 

[prabe]

So maybe to better explain
1. Living World - That which has been established as truth in a campaign setting
2. The Fiction - That which as been revealed through play to the group

Those two circles do not have to overlap perfectly. I think this is some of the pushback on terms. I'm fine with using "the fiction" to mean what you say though honestly I wouldn't have take that term myself. But you can't say that #1 has to overlap #2 for everyone. It may overlap in a Story Now game and that may be a characteristic of Story Now play. It may be a characteristic of other styles of play. It doesn't have to be though.

I think there'd be those who'd say something that hasn't arisen in play hasn't been established. The stuff I write as setting prep, I don't consider established until something player-facing happens: either the PCs encounter it, or I post a description of it.

 

[Emerikol]

The stuff that's not in those documents, which no one has encountered, isn't.

I agree we probably overlap on style. This particular phrase though is not one I accept as true. What is established as truth for a world is exactly what the GM holds to be true for the world. Some GMs may change their mind in which case I wouldn't think much of what they establish as true but not all GMs would. There are things that are established that no players know about. They may come to know of it or they may not.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Sorry, what? You're objecting to the idea that something in your notes might not exist in the game-world because you haven't haven't established in-game that it does?

yes

 

[prabe]

I agree we probably overlap on style. This particular phrase though is not one I accept as true. What is established as truth for a world is exactly what the GM holds to be true for the world. Some GMs may change their mind in which case I wouldn't think much of what they establish as true but not all GMs would. There are things that are established that no players know about. They may come to know of it or they may not.

Following that chain of thought leads to questions of how much of a fictional setting exists beyond what the characters encounter, which feels as though it's getting awfully close to angels-on-pins territory.

 

[prabe]

yes

Then I guess your notes are part of the fiction, then, aren't they? (Though the stuff no one has encountered seems more on the lines of subtext to me ...)