Falcon and winter solider

[doctorbadwolf]

The social commentary was way too heavy handed though.

It wasn’t even mildly heavy handed. It was literally just the bare, unembellished, truth. There were no conversations in that entire show that didn’t ring true to me even just as a Hispanic white guy who knows a lot of Black folks.

It’s hard to get into without pushing the line of the forum rules, but...yeah the social commentary was on point. A lot of it at first felt like they were kind of skirting around things, and then it got a lot more real by episode 5.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It wasn’t even mildly heavy handed. It was literally just the bare, unembellished, truth. There were no conversations in that entire show that didn’t ring true to me even just as a Hispanic white guy who knows a lot of Black folks.

It’s hard to get into without pushing the line of the forum rules, but...yeah the social commentary was on point. A lot of it at first felt like they were kind of skirting around things, and then it got a lot more real by episode 5.

I didn’t find it heavy handed either. It felt pretty appropriate for the type of show this is, and was pretty important to the characters and concepts in the story.

Also, super heroes are inherently about social commentary and ideas of right and wrong. It always seems odd to me when folks push back against that kind of content in superhero stories.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I didn’t find it heavy handed either. It felt pretty appropriate for the type of show this is, and was pretty important to the characters and concepts in the story.

Also, super heroes are inherently about social commentary and ideas of right and wrong. It always seems odd to me when folks push back against that kind of content in superhero stories.

Yep. That kind of social commentary is especially what Captain America is about, too, so it should be no surprise that when Sam’ Cap is the focus of the show, there is no “both sides” waffling or skirting around issues of race.

In the comics Sam stopped a group of “border militia” domestic terrorists who were kidnapping undocumented immigrants, and when he was criticized for “taking a side” in a “political issue” he rejected the premise and went about doing his job. Because Cap is about equality, fairness, and standing up to systems of oppression and those who create and perpetuate them.

Cap was created to symbolically show America rejecting and fighting fascism, at a time when there was an American Fascist Party holding rallies, and people in Congress who were sympathetic to their arguments.

 

[Omand]

Yeah. I think that was deliberate. They left us to guess whether Zemo killed them with a bomb somehow or whether the guard faked their deaths and they will return another time.

It wasn't just the wings. The shield absorbs kinetic energy, so he was getting a reduced punch even before he had to use his wings.

Except I do not think there is any ambiguity or misdirection in that scene.

Spoiler: Bombing Scene

We see the man with his finger on the trigger of the bomb. It is Zemo's butler/valet. He is the one sitting in the car overlooking the prisoner convoy with the remote in hand as we watch it pull away, and then the scene goes to directly on his face as he folds up the remote to put it away.

I think we use Occam's Razor here. The US Navy guard was indeed a supporter of the Flagsmashers, and giving them reassurance that the fight would continue. In fact, you could even say he was letting them know they would have friends inside when they got to The Raft. Perhaps the showrunners meant us to think that meant there would be a scene with the Flagsmashers being broken out. But then they pull the fast switch by having everything blow up in flames seconds later.

Now, to be truly effective TV/film I think they needed to either give a beat or two more there before the explosion, or to have it happen in a subsequent scene (perhaps on the way to The Raft in a helicopter). They definitely needed to not show the finger on the trigger of the bomb right away if the intention was to shock or surprise us as viewers.

Cheers

[Edited for spelling]

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

No, that was Kovich flying the helicopter. Kovich and the other three were put on the truck that exploded. Diego seemed to disappear from the show an episode or two ago, which is why I am having trouble remembering him being captured.

Watched again and got the two names mixed up, so yeah, Diego was in the helicopter, but also not in the truck when it exploded. My missing Flag Smasher was Lennox. He was the one gassed by Sharon in the parking garage. So 7 dead and 1 in custody. I think the radio announcement of 4 killed in the truck bomb was to hide the fact that Diego is still alive. After all, the government needs someone new to experiment on in order make more serum.

 

[Omand]

Watched again and got the two names mixed up, so yeah, Diego was in the helicopter, but also not in the truck when it exploded. My missing Flag Smasher was Lennox. He was the one gassed by Sharon in the parking garage. So 7 dead and 1 in custody. I think the radio announcement of 4 killed in the truck bomb was to hide the fact that Diego is still alive. After all, the government needs someone new to experiment on in order make more serum.

Still could be 4 dead in the truck bomb. Not sure how the driver could walk away from that.

I actually would have expected at least 5 dead, as usually there is a driver and a guard in the cab for that type of prisoner transport.

Cheers

 

[Older Beholder]

I enjoyed this series far more than expected, I'm probably repeating myself from previous posts but I was surprised at the level of depth it showed.

I'm happy where they went with Walker in the last episode. He had several cool moments and is nicely set up to walk the line between redemption and heel turn in future shows/movies.

Sam is a fantastic Captain America. Part Angel, part Bald Eagle
Happy to hear he'll get his own movie.

Now we just have to wait a month for Loki to begin. Pretty excited for that!

 

[Maxperson]

I'm also wondering why Sharon would lead them to the guy that was making the serum for her and let them kill him. That also doesn't seem like a very Power Broker thing to do.

 

[Imaculata]

It wasn’t even mildly heavy handed. It was literally just the bare, unembellished, truth. There were no conversations in that entire show that didn’t ring true to me even just as a Hispanic white guy who knows a lot of Black folks.

I was talking about how Sam is literally lecturing to the camera in the final episode, not the way it was handled in other episodes.

In previous episodes, they were more subtle about it. If the viewer was paying attention, the subject matter was pretty clear. Although referring to the main character as uncle Sam was a bit on the nose.

But in the final episode he literally turns to the camera and says: "Look, this is what the show is about", and that rubbed me the wrong way. It is as if they underestimated the intelligence of their audience. As if they had to explain it to the two people on the planet who didn't get it, and it undermined my enjoyment.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm also wondering why Sharon would lead them to the guy that was making the serum for her and let them kill him. That also doesn't seem like a very Power Broker thing to do.

It’s almost like humans, even those who are extremely competent and intelligent, aren’t wholly logical.

But she had no reason to think it would end like it did.