D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

[el-remmen]

This is an issue I struggle with because I know in the past I have had themes or occurrences in-game that crossed lines that I know I would never approach today, but at the same time I try to keep the fact of the past in mind b/c there are definitely things that come up in my games that while they may approach a line would not cross it - but I don't get to decide for everyone where those lines are. And just because I know I had blindspots in the past, doesn't mean I don't have any now.

It is for this reason that I went back added content warnings to my story hour for my first 3E campaign (now 15 years old) and its compiled PDFs, something I would not have considered 15 years ago. Because, for example - while there is no sexual assault in the game, the idea of it exists and the possibility of it discussed by the characters (not as something to do, but as something to prevent or wonder about). For some people even discussing it is a problem and would rather never think of that during a game. I get it. I want to know that.

My games have a lot of (fantasy) racism in them because the world has a lot of racism in it, and in considering my setting I want to think about both how those frameworks comes into play and how we can disrupt them and fight against them in ways that are (or seem) impossible in the real-world. As a PoC who has had his life directly effected by racism, and for whom confronting that in real-life is exhausting and frightening and anger-inducing and paralyzing, etc. . . but in a game? In a game, there is a potential for control and cathartic action that is not always possible (or legal or even healthy) in real life. For example, I give my players plenty of opportunity to kill slavers and supremacists and foil their plans, etc. . . some people don't want the idea of slavery or systemic disenfranchisement in their games at all, and I get that and want to respect that as well by letting them know ahead of time.

I try to be as upfront as possible these days about what to expect, not only so we can address it ahead of time, but also if it (or something unexpected) comes up during play we have a precedent for discussing it. Sometimes you might think you are okay with something and then it turns out you're not and vice versa, but having a framework for explicitly broaching that in place really helps.

 

[Bedrockgames]

So what? If someone wants to check a box and tell the DM no spiders, what does it matter how much of a mental health issue that is? Who cares? The player doesn’t like spiders and so no spiders. What does it matter?

It matters because the whole game is potentially being changed to fix something that really isn’t a problem. And people can sense this, which is only going to make them skeptical of real claims

 

[Bedrockgames]

People often have a lot of trouble understanding their own psychology. That is one of the primary reasons they seek professional help for problems.

I'm also not sure how "there's content that doesn't come up in the game" equals "socially rewarded.

1) it gives you power over people and the game (it is enabling you to say this thing doesn’t get to come up). 2) it also creates other social rewards like sympathy (which is good if a person really has a psychological problem and is suffering) but bad if they are just getting attention for its own sake. Again just from observing how things have panned out, i would say there is a lot of that going on. People used to say the same thing for folks who said they were under a witch’s spell. Why would they fake it; what is the reward. That is a hard question to answer because we can’t get into other peoples heads. But one reason for that kind of performative social behavior is social power and attention

 

[overgeeked]

It matters because the whole game is potentially being changed to fix something that really isn’t a problem. And people can sense this, which is only going to make them skeptical of real claims

So we've all developed telepathy? Wow. I must have slept through that.

 

[Bedrockgames]

So we've all developed telepathy? Wow. I must have slept through that.

No. We haven’t. We have empathy and wisdom which I think gives us a way of gauging these things. It isn’t perfect. We can’t get into other peoples heads. But I think often times we get a feeling when someone is lying, exaggerating or pretending (especially if it seems like a trend or fad)

 

[Steampunkette]

except it is having a big unintended effect: people without mental health issues seem to be adopting and self diagnosing these issues because it is socially expected, even socially rewarded. This is why I said you see this sort of thing playing out on social media and live streams. I just think a lot of people with no serious mental health problems are adopting triggers because it’s expected.

... how do you know?

How do you know that these people don't have the mental health issues they're talking about having?

Even if someone is self-diagnosed how can you possibly know they don't have the mental health issues they state they have?

Further: Why would it matter even if they were wrong about it? More people publicly being acknowledged as neurodivergent means moving toward neurodivergent acceptance.

Yeah, I get it as someone who works in the food industry and sees people claiming they're deathly allergic to foods one week and changing up their list the next week even though nothing's killed them, so far. (Jailhouse cook). So what? I just cook them the meal they order, with all appropriate substitutions, and get on with my day. Is it a little bit of a pain in the butt? Sure.

Doesn't mean when some new guy comes in claiming he can't have tomatoes that I'm gonna smear a sliced tomato over his plate to spite him. That'd just be dumb.

Closer to the latter except I think people are becoming sensitized to things that wouldn’t bother them otherwise (it gives you a kind of social capital to fit in and list a trigger). I can see it playing out in the community.

The amount of "I can't imagine a reality in which I could possibly be bothered to care about this" I have for this statement is just -staggering-.

Why do I care if someone who "Can" deal with gore claims that it upsets them in a game to get "Social Capital" with other members of the group? I'll just avoid the gore, they can have their social capital, and everyone has a good time. Including all the people who -actively- get uncomfortable by Gore.

And hey, if over time they -actually- become sensitive to Gore... WHO CARES?! Why the heck does it matter when we exist in a world where we can actively curate what kinds of behaviors and situations we'll be exposed to?

If Gore becomes a gaming table Taboo there will be people who seek it out, increasing their enjoyment by having it. And the people for whom it is uncomfortable won't have to deal with it. Win/Win for pretty much everyone -except- the guy who wants tons of gore in every game who can't find games with tons of gore in them...

And honestly, I'd much rather that as the norm, rather than people constantly having to guard themselves against jerks who are pleased as punch they can get "Social Capital" from having edgy games that drive players away. Y'know... the current situation.

 

[overgeeked]

People often have a lot of trouble understanding their own psychology.

Yeah, that much is crystal clear.

1) it gives you power over people and the game (it is enabling you to say this thing doesn’t get to come up).

Again, so what? And no...people can't "sense" the game is different.

2) it also creates other social rewards like sympathy (which is good if a person really has a psychological problem and is suffering) but bad if they are just getting attention for its own sake. Again just from observing how things have panned out, i would say there is a lot of that going on. People used to say the same thing for folks who said they were under a witch’s spell. Why would they fake it; what is the reward. That is a hard question to answer because we can’t get into other peoples heads. But one reason for that kind of performative social behavior is social power and attention

I think you have a fundamentally flawed grasp of what safety tools actually are and what they're for.

Everything you're saying strikes me as coming from a place of prejudice and ignorance. I'm willing to bet you've never read any safety tools. You decided they were bad, justified it to yourself, and that was it. Consent in Gaming is free. Try reading it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It matters because the whole game is potentially being changed to fix something that really isn’t a problem.

It doesn't have to be a debilitating issue for someone for them to rather it not be in the game.

Which brings us back to the question of why is basic humanity to other people so much to ask.

'Oh No, Bob removed spiders from his game because Bill doesn't like them! What a tragedy!'

And I say that as someone who loves spiders (due to hating insects).

 

[Bedrockgames]

... how do you know?

I don’t. This is only something one can assert opinion on based on seeing similar types of trends over the years and being around people. It is always possible my opinion about what is going on us wrong (but inversely it is always possible you are wrong as well). This is just what I believe is most likely going on based on what I am seeing

 

[prabe]

People often have a lot of trouble understanding their own psychology. That is one of the primary reasons they seek professional help for problems.

Actually, my experience is people seek help because they can't figure out how to solve their own problems, not because they don't understand them (at least empirically).

it gives you power over people and the game (it is enabling you to say this thing doesn’t get to come up). 2) it also creates other social rewards like sympathy (which is good if a person really has a psychological problem and is suffering) but bad if they are just getting attention for its own sake. Again just from observing how things have panned out, i would say there is a lot of that going on. People used to say the same thing for folks who said they were under a witch’s spell. Why would they fake it; what is the reward. That is a hard question to answer because we can’t get into other peoples heads. But one reason for that kind of performative social behavior is social power and attention

So, I can see how this might be a thing, if you had a public open safety discussion before or as part of Session Zero, but my understanding is that (as best practices) especially content-sensitivity things are supposed to be just between an individual player and the GM. If none of the players knows all the player sensitivities the GM is working around, it's hard to say anyone has actual power.

I'm also not sure that comparing people wanting safety tools at a TRPG table to the Salem Witch Trials is ... valid.