D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

[Aldarc]

I am sorry. But I can't engage someone who pulls this routine

Then let's talk about your routine that you regularly pull not just here but elsewhere on this forum:

(which is one of the reasons I am forcing myself to engage in threads like this: because I feel too many people who feel the way I do are not saying anything because they are afraid their statements will be misintreperted by people in exactly the way you are misinterpreting me).

It doesn't matter the thread. The same rhetoric gets pulled out. Get off the cross and stop repeatedly trying to turn yourself into a forum martyr for imaginary multitude of people you claim are afraid of being persecuted for their gaming views. It's about high time that you recognize how your talking points do enable and empower the inclusion of toxic people in our hobby.

You know why people are arguing against you as fiercely as they are? Because they too are fighting for people who have been silenced by people making arguments like you who claim that their mental illnesses and triggers are just fake or exaggerated. They are fighting for people who have found actual value in safety tools and want to see them regularly used in gaming but they had to fight for decades just to see their inclusion now. They are fighting for people who found themselves in highly uncomfortable and toxic gaming situations and had their concerns shat on by people who thought of themselves as good, decent people who would obviously not do anything intentionally harmful to their players.

But a big difference from what I an tell is that these people who are arguing against you could name actual names of people in their lives when pressed (and even have discussed their own personal experiences) of safety tools being a valuable asset for their own gaming needs and preferences.

Perhaps you are being roped into a dangerous belief is my point

And perhaps you are greatly misguided about it being a "dangerous belief" and, to quote @Umbran, "jumping at shadows."

Arguing in good faith, doesn't mean I have to automatically accept your positions because you make points.

Arguing in good faith also means that you wouldn't be repeating blatant misconceptions about safety tools and their intended use when people have corrected you about them. Arguing in good faith isn't just thread-crapping on a thread looking for advice on safety tools by saying they are unneeded, and then downplaying mental illnesses and safety tools as dangerous fads. There seems something antithetical to genuine good faith discussion about your behavior in this thread.

Jeez. Okay first off, I am fiscally liberal and believe in strong social safety nets and social programs for the needy. So this argument doesn't have anything to do with the one I am making. You are not arguing with a conservative here if that is what you think.

You may not be conservative, but have you ever noticed, whether here or in other threads involving social issues, how some anti-inclusive and toxic posters have been attracted by and like your posts that enable, empower, and align with their own beliefs?

Again, what you say you are versus what your words and actions enable are two different things. If you are upset that people are falsely mistaking you for a conservative, and you feel personally offended by that, then it's worth considering how your words here give people that impression and why. Remathilis makes a similar point of this too:

I won't argue with your political leanings, but merely point out you have co-opted some of their language and rhetoric to prove your point.

You may claim that rhetoric is apolitical, but it isn't. Dog whistles, for example, are a form of rhetoric, but it is not apolitical. And if you are picking up conservative talking points and echoing their rhetoric, don't act surprised when people walk away from the conversation unconvinced by your self-proclaimed labels.

Faolyn, I am a non-woke liberal. That doesn't make me a conservative or right wing.

Personally I don't care what labels you claim you are. I care about how your words and actions speak for your true character and beliefs as well as how they impact others. I think that your vacuous argumentation that treats safety tools as a "little silly," a "joke," a "fad," "a negative consequence," etc. or that people are exaggerating their mental illnesses is actively harmful to people who finally do feel empowered by safety tools in gaming.

Not believing in the efficacy of RPG safety tools, being skeptical of behaviors in the community that seem a little performative, there is nothing right wing about that. There is a lot of left wing people who make these arguments too.

I think that a better example of something being "performative" is your posting in this thread, especially given your statement here: "I am forcing myself to engage in threads like this: because I feel too many people who feel the way I do are not saying anything because they are afraid their statements will be misinterpreted by people in exactly the way you are misinterpreting me..."

THAT is literally textbook "performative behavior" and not even just "a little performative" either. Ironic, no?

I always consider the wisdom of my elders I just don't always agree with their conclusions. But seriously I think age can be relevant here. Not in terms of conclusive proof of things. But in terms of sometimes it is valuable to hear out the different opinions of people who have been around longer than you (not just mine but other peoples as well). I mean I would certainly listen to someone who said "but wait I was around for this other event and in my opinion...". It isn't definitive. People shouldn't listen to me just because I am older. But I am explaining that my age is part of what shapes my opinion here. That as you get older you see things, and when you see things again, your opinion is informed by your past experience. It doesn't make me more right or anything.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that the wisdom of my elders involves some pretty racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and other derogatory things, so maybe what my elders have to say is neither "wisdom" nor worth considering.

 

[Celtic-Knight]

This kinda attitude keeps me away from a lot of tables...

Also all conventions. And a wide variety of gaming-related forums.

We should be better than this kind of passionate disdain for other people's boundaries and comfort.

Why do you hate and distrust DMs so much? You don't even know these people and judge them as evildoers who are just waiting to harass you.

 

[Azzy]

Why do you hate and distrust DMs so much? You don't even know these people and judge them as evildoers who are just waiting to harass you.

Gaslight, much?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Because it’s a really bad rhetoric to use and it makes you sound cruel.

I am not cruel Faolyn: I just disagree with you and others about safety tools and the impact a focus on safety tools is having

 

[Bedrockgames]

Then let's talk about your routine that you regularly pull not just here but elsewhere on this forum:

This is not a routine. By all means disagree with me Aldarc (lord knows you have done so many times). But you are attributing things to me that simply aren't the case. This topic in particular is one I think is important in gaming. I am not disagreeing simply to be a 'martyr' or for the sake of disagreement.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You may not be conservative, but have you ever noticed, whether here or in other threads involving social issues, how some anti-inclusive and toxic posters have been attracted by and like your posts that enable, empower, and align with their own beliefs?

Again, what you say you are versus what your words and actions enable are two different things. If you are upset that people are falsely mistaking you for a conservative, and you feel personally offended by that, then it's worth considering how your words here give people that impression and why. Remathilis makes a similar point of this too:

You may claim that rhetoric is apolitical, but it isn't. Dog whistles, for example, are a form of rhetoric, but it is not apolitical. And if you are picking up conservative talking points and echoing their rhetoric, don't act surprised when people walk away from the conversation unconvinced by your self-proclaimed labels.

Again, like I said before I am liberal but not woke. So naturally I am going to disagree with some of the trends in the hobby when it comes to stuff like safety tools like saying orcs are racist. That isn't being anti-inclusive. To me this is just about being honest. I could ignore threads about colonialism in D&D, about safety tools and orcs being racist. I think extreme position are starting to take root in the hobby around them and I think it is important if one disagrees with these views, to push back and to state clearly what one thinks. Doesn't make you a conservative. Mistaking that for conservatism just means people aren't being exposed to enough points of view (and this isn't a dig at conservatives, I just don't like having my politics mischaracterized).

 

[Bedrockgames]

I can tell you from my own personal experience that the wisdom of my elders involves some pretty racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and other derogatory things, so maybe what my elders have to say is neither "wisdom" nor worth considering.

I am arguing about the value of experience. I am not defending every ignorant thing people have believed over the course of time, nor am I saying elders are always right.

 

[Morrus]

So this thread is 16 pages long, and since halfway through page 1 has literally just been a conversation about one single person's aversion to using safety tools. That person isn't going to change their mind, and the thread is fairly acrimonious, with terms like 'woke' and references to the orc/racism thing just a couple of posts back so I'm going to close it.