D&D General Leaning into the tropes

[aco175]

• There is some ancient "Rome" that once ruled the known world and fell scattering old tombs and magic. This is also why we have the common language.

 

[ninjayeti]

The 13th Age RPG has living dungeons like the Stone Thief. I saw an indie game that took the concept one step further: dungeons are demonic entities that spawn monsters which can eventually overrun the area. The only way to kill them is to enter them and remove the "anchor" which us usually in the form of some great treasure.

 

[monsmord]

The class system as a mix of "profession" (e.g. fighter, rogue), "lifestyle" (e.g. monk, barbarian), "nature" (e.g. sorcerer), and "faith" (e.g. druid, warlock) is one I find vexing in terms of world-building and justifying PC roles in society and economy. Like, somehow two people training to become fighters, one of whom happens to qualify as a sorcerer by heritage, results in one 2nd-level fighter and one not. It's fine to say, "well, the sorcerer does have to spend time on, you know, sulking over their family curse and learning to invoke and control their blood," but I kinda think they can do that in their off-hours while the other mundane fighter is out carousing or something. I get the class system, but personally don't cotton to it. Woe is me.

Leaning into it, all classes would essentially be a career. Each would have a school, guild, controlling council, or such, however informal, and characters everywhere would identify and be identified as members of that "profession." In some cases it may be overt, whether through class heraldry, tattoos, eye colour, etc. In others cases, inconspicuous but detectable by the right means, like an aura similar to that of alignment or magic type. Multiclassing would be a matter of "approval" by whatever governs the new class, and probably means one can never return to advancing in the original class except under extraordinary circumstances. In such a world, classed characters would be an assumed part of the fabric of society, where someone in a "warlock hat" is no more surprising than a cleric wearing a robe of station, and one might be a well-known rogue on the taxable payroll of an aristocrat. Hmm - a thieves guild union on strike for better benefits. Pretty iffy.

I played with something similar in a 3e homebrew, where every class that featured inherent superhuman/supernatural abilities was a "calling" of the blood, a product of divine heritage similar to the sorcerer description, and a character could only have one of those, ever. (Even a character descended from more than one divinity would only manifest a "calling" of one divinity, likely the one higher in the pantheon.) So one could multiclass a "calling" with a purely skill-based class, say, a fighter/sorcerer or wizard/druid (I treated wizards as skill-based casters), but could not be a sorcerer/druid. I can't say this was entirely successful.

I've found alignment handy as I do like good-versus-evil stories, but I apply it more to gods, NPCs, spells, and items than to PCs. Which is why I have trouble with paladins.

 

[Minigiant]

If you ever look up the design purpose of most dungeons, you realize most would be build by fallen empires or dead adventurers. That's the only reason there are +1 swords and magic rings in the bottom of them.

I lean hard on this logic.

 

[humble minion]

Before it got wildly metaphysical and cosmic-powered, the integration of D&D tropes into a believable world that happened in Sepulchrave's story hour is as good as anything I've seen. Spell slots were analogous to valences in an electron shell. Powerful wizards in a region mostly knew each other and the main way to get the magic items you wanted was to be gifted them by someone more powerful than you, or to trade them with your equals. And the whole ludicrously theological epic-level storyline was triggered by a 'what does Always Chaotic Evil REALLY mean' question.

The trope of 'adventuring parties' being a standard part of the setting leaves me utterly cold. Aside from the fact that the word 'adventure' implies PCs are out to seek thrills or entertainment, people should choose to delve in dungeons or whatever because of their ties to the world, rather than the world just having an anchor trope of small groups of dungeon-delvers and building the rest of society etc around it. Nothing turns me off a setting faster than seeing an 'adventurer's guild' or kingdoms handing out some sort of charter or licence for 'adventuring parties'

 

[Reynard]

If you ever look up the design purpose of most dungeons, you realize most would be build by fallen empires or dead adventurers. That's the only reason there are +1 swords and magic rings in the bottom of them.

I lean hard on this logic.

I prefer the trope that the dungeon is ancient and many, many powers have dwelt there in long ages after its original purpose and many adventurers have tried to explore. This allows for far more diversity of experience in the dungeon

 

[Xetheral]

I can't stand parties of adventurers as a general common trope beyond the party or context specific situations. It takes me out of immersion to have adventurer's guilds and too much built around the party of adventurers as a big regular part of society.

I love having dungeons, vast arrays of monsters, and lots of the quirks of D&D magic.

Adventurers' Guilds start to make a lot more sense in-fiction if you treat them as intended to exploit adventurers, rather than assist them....

"What? You're looking for a place to sell that magic sword to raise cash? Well, I don't know anyone in these parts who would want a magic sword, but the Guild is always happy to help out its members! I've only got a couple hundred gold pieces available at this Wayhouse, but I can write you a personal (read: non-transferable) letter of credit for the balance that you can partially redeem for services at any Wayhouse, or you can take to the Guild Motherhouse in the capital to cash out in full for coin."

It doesn't even have to be an outright scam. You're basically selling gift certificates (in exchange for heavy, unwanted treasure) to people with the life expectancy of carnival goldfish. What fraction of adventuring parties are actually going to live long enough to cash out their letters of credit? And when the rare party does cash out, well, the guild has this handy supply of magical items available for sale that were "fairly" purchased at market rates. Even if they resell the items at (or below!) cost ("As a service to our most valued members!") the Guild still comes out ahead given the low redemption rate.

 

[steeldragons]

But what happens when we really lean into the tropes? What happens when we let the game rules and those D&Disms say something about the world in which the game takes place?

In my estimation and experience, you get a game that is "truly" D&D.

I am not necessarily talking about going full meta or playing it like a LitRPG -- although you could do that and I think it could be fun. Rather, I am saying things like:
Alignment is real and an understood part of the philosophy of the world.

Yup.

Magic works in the world like it says it works in the books -- precise, specific generally inflexible and largely focused on combat.

mmm, I tend to go a bit more flexible than the books. But mostly, yeah.

The world is populated by at least some superhuman adventurer types that vastly outperform regular folks and are the only ones that can stop horrible monsters and dastardly villains and angry gods.

Prrrrretty much, yeah. Generally peaking, this tends to be the uber-successful PC from past groups or campaigns within the setting. But, yes. Not "a-dime-a-dozen," like I would submit settings like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk espouse. But "a handful," known across the world/through myth or tales (if they're still living), yes, sure.

The world is full of horrible monsters, dastardly villains and angry gods, many of whom dwell in deep underground fortresses full of traps and minions.

But of course! Where else would they be? No angry god worth her salt would be caught undying without a sizeable collection of traps and minions.

The most powerful magical items in the world are beyond even those superhuman heroes. In fact, the world is full of the ruins and detritus of an age of immense power and apparent malevolence.

Oh yeah. Hundred and fifty percent. (little known secret, the most powerful immense power and apparent benevolence ones are from those times too. )

Do you embrace D&Disms in your D&D games?

Perrrrty sher you have the answer to this now.

If so, how does it change (if at all) between editions? Are there D&Disms you just can't abide, or love and bring to other games?

Not really at all...really. That I've noticed, I mean. The difference between editions are rules-related. Selection of classes, species, and all that "meta" stuff doesn't really swing that far in any given direction. It's the rules that change. And those above examples...they aren't really effected by rules iterations, a.k.a. "Editions."

Is the distinction without a difference betwixt "Wizard" and "Sorcerer" considered one of these "D&Disms?" If so, then there's one I can't abide. If not, nevermind.

ummm... "Deities walking around on the planet setting" is something I don't really do. Does that count? More the "must act through their servants/chosen rep's" kinda thing in my worlds/games. Visions/dreams are ok, the occasional omen, altering weather or circumstance that isn't really "directly involved" in a situation, that kinda thing. I don't know if that counts as a "D&Dism" trope. Just seems more general "mythological realism/accuracy" to me.

 

[opacitizen]

• There is some ancient "Rome" that once ruled the known world and fell scattering old tombs and magic. This is also why we have the common language.

As an aside, this is what FASA made official in their Earthdawn game — a "what if there was a reason for all the dungeons, treasure, and demons in your fantasy world" fantasy alternate to D&D — back in the day with Thera and Throal.

 

[Coroc]

If only it were true. We have not one bludgeoning or finesse polearm with 10 foot reach despite numerous historical or fantasy examples.

Bludgeoning, i am with you there, need that lucerne hammer, but finesse? What polearm is finesse in your view?