Players establishing facts about the world impromptu during play

[The-Magic-Sword]

I brought it up because KoB is frequently mentioned in the same breath as PBTA in reference to relatively rules lite narrative driven TRPGs.

"Story Now" isnt standardized verbage, in fact I thought Campbell or someone had suggested it to rename one of those "Six Cultures of Gaming" a couple of weeks ago?

 

[Fenris-77]

Both are collaborative storytelling games. There purpose is to share in creation of a story. Never claimed they did it the same way. Strange leap, there.

I still don't see it, and I've read the rules. shrug

 

[Ovinomancer]

I brought it up because KoB is frequently mentioned in the same breath as PBTA in reference to relatively rules lite narrative driven TRPGs.

Is it?

"Story Now" isnt standardized verbage, in fact I thought Campbell or someone had suggested it to rename one of those "Six Cultures of Gaming" a couple of weeks ago?

Um, no. First, that article didn't use that term. Second, Story Now is well defined around a set of play priciples (it explicitly contrasts against Story Before) and has been around awhile.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I still don't see it, and I've read the rules. shrug

Not sure what you don't see. That both are intentional approaches to collaborative storytelling or something else?

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Is it?

Um, no. First, that article didn't use that term. Second, Story Now is well defined around a set of play priciples (it explicitly contrasts against Story Before) and has been around awhile.

Gotcha, I knew it conceptually but didnt realize it had standardized verbiage.

Yes it is, and it approaches collaborative storytelling in the same general way these TTRPGs do, with players controlling individual characters, a GM, safety tools, dice rolls, ability checks, hell even some very small numerical bonuses. You describe an action and it either happens, or the GM tells you to roll a check to see if it happens, just like "directly engaging a threat" in Masks.

Are you ok? Which isn't sarcasam, you mentioned painkillers upthread.

 

[Fenris-77]

Not sure what you don't see. That both are intentional approaches to collaborative storytelling or something else?

No, I mean their game play and mechanics have nothing in common at all that I can identify. KoB is pretty traditional it's mechanics and approach to adjudication. As far as I can tell you saw the phrase collaborative storytelling on the splash page and just assumed that meant a Fiasco style game, IDK. Admittedly I'm not an expert KoB, but the closest it gets to 'collaborative' is that on a success the GM and Player work together to frame successful actions. That doesn't make it Fiasco at all though. What specifically were you thinking of that made them similar?

 

[Ovinomancer]

No, I mean their game play and mechanics have nothing in common at all that I can identify. KoB is pretty traditional it's mechanics and approach to adjudication. As far as I can tell you saw the phrase collaborative storytelling on the splash page and just assumed that meant a Fiasco style game, IDK. Admittedly I'm not an expert KoB, but the closest it gets to 'collaborative' is that on a success the GM and Player work together to frame successful actions. That doesn't make it Fiasco at all though. What specifically were you thinking of that made them similar?

Again, I clearly said earlier that they aren't similar in mechanics. The goal of play being to collaboratively create a story is what I was comparing. The point of play is creation of a story. In non-storytelling games, story is often an outcome but it is not the purpose of play. Kids on Bikes and Fiasco feature story advocacy as a key ingredient. There's nothing wrong with this, but it differs from Story Now play where story advocacy is depriciated.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Gotcha, I knew it conceptually but didnt realize it had standardized verbiage.

Yes it is, and it approaches collaborative storytelling in the same general way these TTRPGs do, with players controlling individual characters, a GM, safety tools, dice rolls, ability checks, hell even some very small numerical bonuses. You describe an action and it either happens, or the GM tells you to roll a check to see if it happens, just like "directly engaging a threat" in Masks.

No, KoB features a heavy dose of story advocacy, where actions and outcomes are selected because it leads to a better story. Story Now, at worst, depreciates this and pushes Character Advocacy, where you are intended to strongly advocate for your character. This, like other RPGs, generates story, but as a second order effect. Kids on X puts story advocacy front and center.

Are you ok? Which isn't sarcasam, you mentioned painkillers upthread.

Go to heck. Do not snidely patronize me as if I'm babbling on narcotics just because I disagree with you. I've made my points lucidly, so kindly shove your false concern.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don't even think they're both 'collaborative storytelling games' in any kind of way that matters for a stable definition of the term. Anyway, not a big deal.

 

[Umbran]

Edit: I should probably leave this thread to the Storygamers now!

It is a bit of a shame that this discussion got so overwhelmed. I think a lot of useful discussion of techniques has gotten washed out.

Players establishing facts about the world during play in Story Now games is the trivial case! The rules of whatever game you are playing specifically give you the why, where, and how of it. That is uninteresting, and of little help to people who are not, at the moment, playing one of those games. The academic wrangling over exactly what is, or is not "Story Now" is even less useful.