D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Imaro]

Yeah the whole dynamic of unbeatable monster just isn't at all contradictory to the mechanics of 5e. The fact that some folks consider a campaign constrained to certain levels to be anything other than a completely normal campaign type is also very strange, to me.

Yeah I'll admit these points have been a head scratcher for me as well...

 

[dave2008]

There’s the old criticism of the Deities and Demigods book that once you give stats to a creature, the players will want to kill it.

If you are familiar with my 5e epic monster updates you know I don't ascribed to that belief. I like to stat cosmic level threats because it is fun, even if there is no way for the PCs to beat them. Though I generally agree with the concept.

However, how often do 15 HP PCs want to challenge an aberration with 75 hit points, let alone a 1,200 HP cosmic horror that does 84 damage with one claw attack?

I find that to be a very accurate assessment of the situation, and it’s one of the reasons that when it comes to cosmic horror, D&D handles it best in small doses. A prolonged game with those kinds of themes would need some real reworking of the rules to the point that one should likely just try another game.

This is because sooooo much of D&D is combat based that once you remove combat as the main focus, the remaining rules are anemic.

If so, I guess we (my gaming group) are all anemics as we can play D&D 5e just fine without a lot of combat, little to no house rules and have a great time. That is really all I want - to have a good time with my friends. I personally don't find that I need a lot of rules for social interaction, investigation, infiltration, etc. to achiever that goal. Though, as always, everyone is different and has different needs.

 

[prabe]

This is the motte argument to the OP's bailey, which is not so limited in scope. This obvious and hard to disagree that if someone is currently running a D&D game and asks for help to do a sideline in that game, recommending to switch to other games is unhelpful. Very solid, very defensible position. But, the OP actually complains about being recommended other games at all, even when asking input for a new game start, because the assumption is the OP wants to play D&D. This is much less defensible and quite silly. Whenever this is solidly challenged, though, the retreat to the motte usually follows. And, now, the motte is being oresented as under attack, when it isn't.

It's possible the OP got edited before I saw it, but I always understood the concern to be asking for help doing something in 5E and being told not to do it in 5E (including being told to do it in a specific other game). I'd think asking for help doing something (caper, Cosmic Horror, whatever) in an ongoing 5E campaign is contained in the larger asking for help doing it in 5E. I can see someone asking how to do something in an ongoing campaign, and not mention it was an ongoing campaign. But it really doesn't matter; if someone is asking for help doing something in 5E, I don't think flat advice to do it in a different game is anything like as helpful as specific advice for going it in 5E. It's plausible that it's very slightly less tone-deaf than offering that same advice when someone is clearly asking for help managing something coming up in an ongoing campaign.

 

[Aldarc]

If you are familiar with my 5e epic monster updates you know I don't ascribed to that belief. I like to stat cosmic level threats because it is fun, even if there is no way for the PCs to beat them. Though I generally agree with the concept.

However, how often do 15 HP PCs want to challenge an aberration with 75 hit points, let alone a 1,200 HP cosmic horror that does 84 damage with one claw attack?

If you are familiar with the 5e player paradigm...

 

[prabe]

If you are familiar with the 5e player paradigm...

"If it bleeds, we can kill it."

 

[Aldarc]

"If it bleeds, we can kill it."

The gif for that is also thankfully available.

 

[prabe]

The gif for that is also thankfully available.

That's been running around my gaming circles for so long I didn't associate it with any specific movie.

 

[dave2008]

That's been running around my gaming circles for so long I didn't associate it with any specific movie.

I'm pretty sure it predates The Predator. I remember a very similar line in a Conan comic many moons ago at least. Though it was more: "If it bleeds, it is not a god." Then they proceed to kill it.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It's possible the OP got edited before I saw it, but I always understood the concern to be asking for help doing something in 5E and being told not to do it in 5E (including being told to do it in a specific other game). I'd think asking for help doing something (caper, Cosmic Horror, whatever) in an ongoing 5E campaign is contained in the larger asking for help doing it in 5E. I can see someone asking how to do something in an ongoing campaign, and not mention it was an ongoing campaign. But it really doesn't matter; if someone is asking for help doing something in 5E, I don't think flat advice to do it in a different game is anything like as helpful as specific advice for going it in 5E. It's plausible that it's very slightly less tone-deaf than offering that same advice when someone is clearly asking for help managing something coming up in an ongoing campaign.

The OP still doesn't oresenr the motte argument, but the bailey. I checked before I responsed to you.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But not relevant to the fact that they may suggest another game. It’s quite possible someone may find the same challenges with D&D as it relates to a shift in genre.

I feel a bit dizzy....

That dizziness is a result of taking one statement in a vacuum, and pretending I haven't also said, many times, that giving actual advice about potential pitfalls, and/or what actual things other games do to support the thing in question, is good advice.

There is nothing complex or hard to understand about the following;

Telling someone who has asked for advice on how to do a thing in DnD that they should just not try, and/or that DnD just doesn't do that, is bad form. Giving advice about potential pitfalls and about what other games do to support the thing in question is good form.

It's possible the OP got edited before I saw it, but I always understood the concern to be asking for help doing something in 5E and being told not to do it in 5E (including being told to do it in a specific other game). I'd think asking for help doing something (caper, Cosmic Horror, whatever) in an ongoing 5E campaign is contained in the larger asking for help doing it in 5E. I can see someone asking how to do something in an ongoing campaign, and not mention it was an ongoing campaign. But it really doesn't matter; if someone is asking for help doing something in 5E, I don't think flat advice to do it in a different game is anything like as helpful as specific advice for going it in 5E. It's plausible that it's very slightly less tone-deaf than offering that same advice when someone is clearly asking for help managing something coming up in an ongoing campaign.

Only edit I've made was to change the title, and add an explanation of the title change.

You're spot on, that is exactly what I've been saying.