D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[dave2008]

Sorry, I was a bit behind. The Sandy Peterson thing sounds interesting. I'd still probably use ToC nowadays though for Mythos play.

Is ToC = Trail of Cthulhu?

 

[dave2008]

Sorry, I was a bit behind. The Sandy Peterson thing sounds interesting. I'd still probably use ToC nowadays though for Mythos play.

I really like what he did with mythos monsters (particular the big bads) and the Dread and Insanity mechanics are interesting and somewhat different from what I expected (having come from CoC).

 

[dave2008]

August Derleth became the 'owner' of HPL's material, and he simply was both a crappy writer, and really hammed it up. He published a bunch of his own stories, and those of other writers in the genre, as well as republishing HPL's works very selectively. He is basically 'Mythos Lite'. He took certain references in some of the stories and recast the entire thing as a sort of 'battle of good and evil' where the 'Elder Gods' are sort of 'good guys' who once defeated 'The Great Old Ones' and locked them away. These 'Elder Gods' are still basically uncaring (humans are less than ants to them) but they will grant you power to fight the bad guys, and their signs and tools are a sort of 'good magic' you can invoke.

I would suggest entirely ignoring anything Derleth wrote, and a lot of what he published that was written after HPL. Most of it is junk. I mean, it might make a decent game of pulpy action. I'd say something like a less sci-fi version of EE Doc Smith maybe, where the PCs are helping to fight the Great Old Ones and keep them locked up, and agents of the Elder Gods, though quite dangerous and having little care for humans, show up to help now and then (at least maybe dropping a Star Stone or two around). It isn't Cosmic Horror though, not at all.

I must say I agree with 100%, eh...maybe 99.9% of this.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Ok let's try to take this step by step...

1.Sanity in the DMG guide is not a record of whether you are sane or insane...
2. Sanity is a sliding scale of how well you are able to resist the effects of the mythos breaking your mind (think of the difference between your ability to resist disease vs how healthy you are, one could inform the other or not but they aren't the same thing)

Do we agree both of these are true?

EDIT: Your view of Sanity seems to align with that stat in CoC but it's not the same in D&D.

I think there's a problem with stating the Sanity stat is not a measue of sanity. Every other stat is a measure of that thing -- an indication of how good you are in that area. But, here you are saying Sanity isn't a measure of how good you are at being sane, but rather hiw good you are at learning insane things.

So, no, not so good on those two. It's kinda why I keep saying it's not a good mechanic.

 

[dave2008]

I can't see how sanity isn't a fundamental element of any media that is trying to incorporate the Mythos in any way. To not do so would, I think, imply a fundamental failing of understanding the genre.

I agree with this; however, I will say that I don't think it is a mechanic that is needed for an adventure in the genre. I game designed for that genre, sure.

 

[Imaro]

I think there's a problem with stating the Sanity stat is not a measue of sanity. Every other stat is a measure of that thing -- an indication of how good you are in that area. But, here you are saying Sanity isn't a measure of how good you are at being sane, but rather hiw good you are at learning insane things.

So, no, not so good on those two. It's kinda why I keep saying it's not a good mechanic.

D&D pretty much does this with all of it's abilities... either defining them as encompassing other things... Like intelligence being a measure of memory or totally made up... Wisdom being how attuned you are to the world. I figure if you are playing D&D you choose to accept the given definition for an ability... shrug.

EDIT: As long as they do define it, I'm not understanding what the issue is?

 

[loverdrive]

I haven't been following the sanity/Lovecraft tangent incredibly closely, so there is a good chance I may be missing something....but I'll go ahead and say that anyone who was going to take Lovecraft's work and then turn it into a game is absolutely going to incorporate the ideas of sanity and/or madness into the game.

I don't even see how they would not do so. It's such an element of the fiction. And while yes, some protagonists may retain their sanity, it's always at risk. And plenty of side characters do suffer mental trauma of some form or another. That's establishing the risk.

Does a game that is intended to be based on a group of individuals rather than the typical single protagonists of the stories function a bit differently? Of course. But that's a side effect of making a game meant for more than one player.

I can't see how sanity isn't a fundamental element of any media that is trying to incorporate the Mythos in any way. To not do so would, I think, imply a fundamental failing of understanding the genre.

There's a weird Russian game called Умер Мужик (literally A Man Has Died, but it's more of a meme, so I don't think it can be adequately translated). It's about toxic masculinity ruining men's lives.

One of the players plays as the Man, everyone else take on roles of various Destructive Tendencies, like Aggression (they won't hurt me if I hurt them first), Independence (I can't trust anyone but myself), Coldness (emotions make me vulnerable), etc.

The game happens is several phases, starting from childhood to teenage years to adulthood, and in each phase several important events happen (mostly bad, like being outcasted, or having family issues, or getting laid off, but not all — there's at least falling in love).

During each event, everyone states what they think the Man should do. So, maybe the Man fell in love and everything is good.... But Independence says "You know she is just using you, right? Don't give her any leverage, don't get attached. Or you will be hurt.", and Aggression latches on: "Yeah, and she's so cocky about using you too. Constantly bitching, and demanding stuff. Show her, who is the man here.", but the Man doesn't want any of it, he wants to enjoy the relationships while they last.

So they roll one d6 each, whoever rolls highest narrates what's gonna happen next and picks a Consequence (so, maybe the Man is now having troubles with sleep, or has anger management issues?).

The Man also has a Willpower resource to spend on rolling additional dice (thus, increasing his chances to get the things right), and fixing Consequences he've suffered.

The game ends if the Man survives through adulthood ("Congratulations, you're still alive. But at what cost?" — the game then asks) or suffers enough consequences and decides to end things, all the things.



Ok. Maybe this needs more explaining than what I can do from a phone with no spell checker, but I think this can be a GREAT engine for lovecraftian horror.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I agree with this; however, I will say that I don't think it is a mechanic that is needed for an adventure in the genre. I game designed for that genre, sure.

Right, I think there are shades of genre going on here. Some folks take a more "pulpy" approach to the mythos, while others hew closer to the source material and the idea of cosmic horror.

 

[hawkeyefan]

There's a weird Russian game called Умер Мужик (literally A Man Has Died, but it's more of a meme, so I don't think it can be adequately translated). It's about toxic masculinity ruining men's lives.

One of the players plays as the Man, everyone else take on roles of various Destructive Tendencies, like Aggression (they won't hurt me if I hurt them first), Independence (I can't trust anyone but myself), Coldness (emotions make me vulnerable), etc.

The game happens is several phases, starting from childhood to teenage years to adulthood, and in each phase several important events happen (mostly bad, like being outcasted, or having family issues, or getting laid off, but not all — there's at least falling in love).

During each event, everyone states what they think the Man should do. So, maybe the Man fell in love and everything is good.... But Independence says "You know she is just using you, right? Don't give her any leverage, don't get attached. Or you will be hurt.", and Aggression latches on: "Yeah, and she's so cocky about using you too. Constantly bitching, and demanding stuff. Show her, who is the man here.", but the Man doesn't want any of it, he wants to enjoy the relationships while they last.

So they roll one d6 each, whoever rolls highest narrates what's gonna happen next and picks a Consequence (so, maybe the Man is now having troubles with sleep, or has anger management issues?).

The Man also has a Willpower resource to spend on rolling additional dice (thus, increasing his chances to get the things right), and fixing Consequences he've suffered.

The game ends if the Man survives through adulthood ("Congratulations, you're still alive. But at what cost?" — the game then asks) or suffers enough consequences and decides to end things, all the things.



Ok. Maybe this needs more explaining than what I can do from a phone with no spell checker, but I think this can be a GREAT engine for lovecraftian horror.

I think I follow. I want to say that sounds like Bluebeard's Bride? I think? Where each player is like an aspect of the mind of the main character.

I may be wrong.

 

[loverdrive]

I think I follow. I want to say that sounds like Bluebeard's Bride? I think? Where each player is like an aspect of the mind of the main character.

I may be wrong.

Maybe, I haven't played Bluebeard's Bride, but yeah, players do represent different aspects of the character (and also the rest of the world, too)