D&D 5E Can a hasted bladesinger cast a cantrip with the haste extra action

[TwoSix]

Not quite. (one weapon attack only) can mean (one weapon attack only) or (one weapon attack only). In other words, is could be saying "you can't make more than one weapon attack" rather than "you can't use if for anything other than a weapon attack". The language used is completely ambiguous. In English, there is no way to distinguish between the two meanings.

Agreed. To my reading, the restriction is obviously about the frequency of attacks, not a restriction on the type of attack. I can understand the logic behind the other side, but that’s not how I rule it.

To my mind, the best way to rule is in the direction of “let the player do their cool trick more often.” If they have a feature that lets them swap a weapon attack for something else, allow them to enjoy it.

 

[NotAYakk]

Not quite. (one weapon attack only) can mean (one weapon attack only) or (one weapon attack only). In other words, is could be saying "you can't make more than one weapon attack" rather than "you can't use if for anything other than a weapon attack". The language used is completely ambiguous. In English, there is no way to distinguish between the two meanings.

Well, no way to distinguish without more words.

 

[Justpassingthrough]

I agree with you.

RAW, Haste lets you take an Attack action. Literally - "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action." That directly implies "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only) action."

So Haste - RAW - is saying you are taking an Attack action. That can seem to offer a chink through which a cantrip might enter - but then Haste imposes a very specific constraint on that action - "one weapon attack only". It does not then matter what else you might ordinarily do with your Attack action - turn the King into a pear, for instance - none of that matters! All you can do is use a weapon to make one attack.

Specific rule triumphs over generic, new over old.

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Fireball ​

"Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one" Generic rule​

Sculpt Spells​

"When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell's level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save." Specific Rule​

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then....​

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"WHENEVER (not when other rules alow you) you take the Attack action" "you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."​

Everybody else cant, 6th level bladesinger can. In the same way that for everyone fireball hits everyone except for evoker

 

[ph0rk]

To my mind, the best way to rule is in the direction of “let the player do their cool trick more often.” If they have a feature that lets them swap a weapon attack for something else, allow them to enjoy it.

My only gripe with that particular ruling is it puts the bladesinger even more head and shoulders over the Eldritch Knight for using SCAG cantrips in melee, which feels wrong.

It isn't a huge damage difference, as it is the weapon attacks themselves doing most of the work (shadow blade, spirit shroud, or GWM), but still - it is a sort of thematic power creep relative to the PHB archetype.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

I doubt it is overpowered if you allow it. Though I do find it funny that with the Paladin, Hexblade and Bladesinger if you use this interpretation, Haste works absolutely the worst for the Fighter and Barbarian.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I disagree. There is more to it than that. The Bladesinger's Extra Attack feature lets them attack twice with the Attack Action on their turn. Then it says "Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
So with the Haste Action you cannot use the Extra Attack feature. Because you can't use the first part of the feature there is no way to use the second part. "... in place of one of those attacks" is impossible because you don't have "those attacks" granted by Extra Attack.

You’re adding things that aren’t there. The haste spell doesn’t say anything about extra attack, it just says one attack only. The spell would have to actually say that you “cannot apply any feature that increases your number of attacks, such as the Extra Attack feature” or something like that, in order to do what you’re saying.

 

[TwoSix]

My only gripe with that particular ruling is it puts the bladesinger even more head and shoulders over the Eldritch Knight for using SCAG cantrips in melee, which feels wrong.

It isn't a huge damage difference, as it is the weapon attacks themselves doing most of the work (shadow blade, spirit shroud, or GWM), but still - it is a sort of thematic power creep relative to the PHB archetype.

“Old and busted...new hotness.”

I see your point, but war magic was kind of weak feature anyway specifically for EKs since 3 attacks trumps cantrip + one attack at level 11, especially assuming GWM.

 

[Maxperson]

As pointed out, there are abilities which allow an attack action to be used for things other than making a weapon attack.

None of which do anything to the attack action. The attack action ONLY allows weapon attacks. Period. Read it in the PHB. That other classes have their own special abilities that can modify that isn't relevant to what the attack action allows.

Edit: Reading the Bladesinger, it might not be able use its ability to cast a cantrip in place of the attack granted by haste. The Bladesinger gets that ability via the extra attack feature, which is not present due to haste only providing one attack. It could easily be interpreted to require multiple attacks in order to turn one into a cantrip.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yes ONLY for bladesinger
"whenever you take the Attack action on your turn ... you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks"

You can only cast a cantrip as one of those attacks when you use the extra attack class feature gained by the BS, and you cant use that feature when using the attack action granted by Haste.

The limiter on Haste (one weapon attack only) overrides the Extra attack general rule.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes ONLY for bladesinger
"whenever you take the Attack action on your turn ... you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks"

1 Is a atack action.
2 "one weapon attack only" "one of those attacks." one attack is enough

All conditions have been met

It would have to be at the correct range for the weapon in hand. Otherwise you would not be able to attack and there would be no attack to switch to cantrip.

One of those attacks, plural. It might not only be enough if you have one attack. The ability comes with the extra attack feature and could easily be interpreted to require multiple attacks in order to turn one the attacks into a cantrip. The ability as written does not clearly show that the Bladesinger can use the ability to override the one single attack granted by haste.