D&D 5E Can a hasted bladesinger cast a cantrip with the haste extra action

[Paul Farquhar]

None of which do anything to the attack action. The attack action ONLY allows weapon attacks. Period. Read it in the PHB.

I have. And the PHB says "specific beets general", and there are plenty of specific rules that overrule the general rule that an attack action only allows weapon attacks.

 

[Maxperson]

I agree with you.

RAW, Haste lets you take an Attack action. Literally - "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action." That directly implies "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only) action."

So Haste - RAW - is saying you are taking an Attack action. That can seem to offer a chink through which a cantrip might enter - but then Haste imposes a very specific constraint on that action - "one weapon attack only". It does not then matter what else you might ordinarily do with your Attack action - turn the King into a pear, for instance - none of that matters! All you can do is use a weapon to make one attack.

I don't think the RAI is to allow only the attack. I think what they are intending is that you can't use the extra attack feature to get two or more attacks. You get one attack only. Not that only an attack can be made if you have a specific beats general case.

 

[Maxperson]

I have. And the PHB says "specific beets general", and there are plenty of specific rules that overrule the general rule that an attack action only allows weapon attacks.

Right, but your post was only about the attack action granted by haste. You said it was ambiguous and it's not. It offers an attack action that allows a single weapon attack only. That is very unambiguous. It allows the attack action, which only allows weapons, and it gives you one attack. Crystal clear. Other instances of specific beats general don't apply to your statement, because the statement was only about haste and the attack action.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Right, but your post was only about the attack action granted by haste. You said it was ambiguous and it's not. It offers an attack action that allows a single weapon attack only. That is very unambiguous. It allows the attack action, which only allows weapons,

This is wrong. The attack action doesn't only allow weapons, because there are specific rules that allow attack actions for other things.

and it gives you one attack. Crystal clear. Other instances of specific beats general don't apply to your statement, because the statement was only about haste and the attack action.

 

[Maxperson]

You’re adding things that aren’t there. The haste spell doesn’t say anything about extra attack, it just says one attack only. The spell would have to actually say that you “cannot apply any feature that increases your number of attacks, such as the Extra Attack feature” or something like that, in order to do what you’re saying.

If it limits you to one weapon attack, then it is automatically precluding the application of features which give you more attacks.

 

[ph0rk]

This is wrong. The attack action doesn't only allow weapons, because there are specific rules that allow attack actions for other things.

Yep:

When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a Special melee Attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.

Which is similar enough language to the bladesinger extra attack cantrip.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

I'd say "yes"
You get to take the Attack action. Which means you can swap out your actual attack with anything that replaces the Attack action. Like trying to grapple or shoving a creature. Which seem like valid uses of Haste
Which would be RAI otherwise HASTE would just say "make a single weapon attack" rather than calling out the Attack option

The Bladesinger feature allows you to cast a cantrip in place of an attack when you take the Attack action. It hits all the boxes

 

[Maxperson]

This is wrong. The attack action doesn't only allow weapons, because there are specific rules that allow attack actions for other things.

Yes, fists count as "weapons" for the attack action. You got me.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, fists count as "weapons" for the attack action. You got me.

Fists count as weapons, but grapples, shoves, and cantrips do not. All of which can be used with an attack action according to specific rules.

 

[Maxperson]

Which is similar enough language to the bladesinger extra attack cantrip.

The difference is that you can grab someone if you have only a single attack. A Bladesinger cannot swap out an attack without multiple attacks. Before he gets the the extra attack feature, he needs to use the Cast a Spell action to cast a cantrip.

I personally would rule that a bladesinger could use his ability, but as written it is not the same as grabbing and I can see it being ruled the other way by a different DM.