D&D 5E Is Treasure and Magic Items Important To You?

[Blue]

The most infuriating play experience I've had with 5e -- the only one that has surpassed the frustration of playing a short rest Fighter in a party of 4 characters that recover abilities only on long rests -- has been having in my possession a ring of jumping and never being able to use it because I had to keep the sword of awakening, ring of protection, and amulet of health attuned instead.

Well, at the rate magic items are given out (as broken down in Xanathar's), assuming the same 5 person party size, that's about 20 permanent magic items, filled up by the end of 16th level.

So, if this was before then, it seems you had a DM who was much more generous with items then 5e gives - so that wouldn't be a problem with 5e. As a matter of fact, it sounds like Attunement was working as intended, preventing christmas trees of magic items even though the DM was far outside the parameters of 5e.

 

[Oofta]

I've been in and run campaigns that handled it slightly different, for my current campaign I'm being fairly stingy but also letting people have a say in what kind of things they get.

I only randomize treasure once in a while for magic items, for the most part I just tell people how much gold they get. Then there's a magic-mart that has a limited selection of common and uncommon magic items. I curate the items available and also randomize it a bit. So there are no brooms of flying, nothing more than uncommon weapons, no shields or armor with pluses.

As far as wealth, I started with a chart someone had figured out a while back and use that as a rough guide. Funny thing is, some people have several uncommon items, one guy only has a +1 weapon and, because it was part of a group reward/treasure and nobody else wanted it an item that gives him a +2 to strength. On the other hand he's dedicated a couple thousand gold to the business he kind of accidentally started.

 

[Umbran]

I'm currently playing in three different 5e games, and I can't say treasure or magic items are playing a central role for me in any of them.

 

[DEFCON 1]

My real issue with magic items is that the ultimately feel unnecessary because the PCs themselves get so many different features via their classes and races. So whatever special ability an item gives is just one in a huge pile of thirty-seven other things the character can do.

Back in the olden days when a AD&D Fighter had hit points, armor (and armor class), a weapon and some basic equipment... that was IT as far as features they could actually use. Thus getting a sword that boosted your attack by 1 and could burst into flame was a huge gain in power and variety. But now? PCs will gain bonuses to their attack rolls via dozens of different ways every single fight, so of course that +1 from the sword means practically nothing.

"You know what? Keep that +1 sword, I'll just take that cleric's Bless spell each combat instead."

And with the amount of class features and spells that are available to every party starting even at level 1, there are very few types of effects that can't be gained in some form or fashion from the beginning. Bonuses to movement? Spells and class features. Bonus to combat? Smites, Quarries, Blessings, etc. etc. Bonuses to defenses? Fighting styles, Shields, cover, obscuring terrain (both natural and magical). Bonuses to communication? Spells, at-will natural telepathy etc.

All the magic items end up doing is just saving a spell slot that would have been spent on the same effect. So it's really hard to see it as anything special.

 

[jgsugden]

... I generally say things like, "There are 275 GP worth of coins and small gems" once the PCs get to 5th level and have the resources to move stuff around....

....I'm the opposite. I give out more copper than silver, and more silver than gold, since those coins should be more common. I have a table I use for gem that gives a modifier to the value based on size and cut quality, making each gem at least somewhat unique. I like to detail out different types of jewelry and art objects, because once you have enough wealth to buy everything you need mechanically, this is the kind of stuff the character usually want.

I know most players don't care, but when I play this is the kind of stuff I care about. Whenever we find loot, I try to keep as many gems, jewelry and art objects as I can as part of my share. I also make sure to carry some copper and silver, allowing me to offer tips and payments without extravagance (which is what dropping a few gold would be for the average NPC). I like this kind of minutia.

I used to send out emails (or even back in the 80s and 90s hand out index cards) that listed all the gems, art objects, jewelry, etc... the PCs found. I found that across a huge swath of players, even when I took a lot of effort to make the things found memorable and (in theory) appealing to the PCs, that it just ended up being a hassle for them. The only way I could get them to take any real notice was to have it moderately enchanted, such as a picture frame that housed an illusion. Outside of that, they wanted to know how much they could turn it into, and where they could spend the gold. I was spending so much time giving them something that did not matter to them. I switched to random generators for 'liquid' treasure and then eventually just realized I was better off making it as monetary as possible and spending my time on other elements of the game that were appreciated.

 

[kenada]

So how about y’all? Have you run campaigns with little or no treasure incentive? What about campaigns without magic items?

I have, but it was more of an accident than anything intentional. It just so happened the PCs never found very many magic items. I’m trying to get better at giving out more because they like finding treasure.

 

[hopeless]

I've been tinkering with items that grow in power alongside their bearer.
What was a simple +1 sword designed to fold up into a dagger in size for convenient transportation extending into a longsword when drawn.
That gained a d6 damage bonus once its wielder reached 3rd level though required attunement for that increase in power to work.
Another had a cape that initially only granted him advantage on skill checks he was most likely to use in this case Performance.
That increased in power at 4th level gaining +1 of protection for every 4 levels of its wearer once attuned with the added factor it was sentient and wanted to devour any other magical items the wearer carried granted a limited amount of them for a time.
Never got far enough to be honest, but I do wonder about this having revealed mana shards that were used to enchant weapons and armour depending on the character's choice though not beyond the +1 effect those don't require attunement though.
You can blame Eberron for THAT idea!

That was just the one game I dm'd for the one I played in my cleric was 4th level and only had the one magical item whilst others had 2 I believe it wasn't that big a deal for me since the magical items in question felt more random.

Tended to use the money to build and consecrate shrines to my character's deity mind you and because she was a herbalist crafted potions which the dm decided needed Arcana checks for a skill my character doesn't have as we had two wizards in the party so my knowledge domain cleric focused on Nature and Religion than Arcana.

Left that group a couple of months ago due to the dm's growing obsession with Exandria.
Long story cut short he made repeated claims it wasn't set on Exandria then after I started my game set on Exandria he decided to change his mind, demonstrating his railroad had run out of tracks.

Still interested in this thread though.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Short answer: if there aren't any magic swords, does it really count as heroic fantasy? I think Stargate had a magic sword at one point!

Middle answer: One thing I like about 5e's treatment of magic items is it gives a lot of freedom in how to use them. You can use a few, none, a lot, many consumables, only permanents... whatever you think will be fun. This allows each dm to give out loot (magic items or otherwise) in the manner that works for the game they run, rather than needing to conform to game-math expectations. It's a great thing about the game, and really adds to the flexibility.

You do still need to learn to adjust difficulty to account for what you've given out, but since you already needed to adjust for player skills I don't see this as a big ask.

Long answer: I've found, IME, that there are four kinds of magic items that really enhance fun: cyphers, logistics items, luxury items and signature items.

Cyphers: named after the Cypher system, these are items that want to be used creatively. The best ones are single-use, do something characters can't do with class features, and just work (no roll to hit).

Logistics items: These are items that let you skip boring logistics issues once those issues become boring (a matter of taste) - this can range from a coin purse of holding up to an airship.

Luxury items: items that mean a lot to the pc's even if they don't do anything mechanically - I fell like these enhance roleplay by making the characters act more like people. Magical dresses, self-pitching tents, rare art objects connected to the cleric's deity, stuff like that.

Signature items: the trickiest of the bunch, but for raw power and game stats, I like to give each pc one item that really builds on the character, both mechanically and narratively. A good magic sword is a bit of a character it self, with evolving stats, a backstory, a defined appearance, and so on. It's important that these work with the character's concept, so I'll usually work pretty closely with the pc to customize these rather that doing it all on my own. I also like to have these items grow during the campaign, so the player can keep them for a while and really connect with them.

It's possible to build a signature-like item with no one in mind and drop it into a campaign to see if anyone takes it: a magic weapon that ties you to a fae court and will create sidequests dealing with that court and it's enemies can be a cool addition, especially for a character who didn't have a lot of backstory. But it's good to telegraph what these items entail and don't get upset if no one picks it up.

The other kinds of net-fun-enhancing items I've encounters are balance items (that fix game math and therefore prevent un-fun imbalances) and items for the sake of reward (acknowledging success is nice, and doing so with stuff is a good way to do that. But the items themselves tend to end up as 'just stuff' if you do this too often).

 

[tetrasodium]

Well, at the rate magic items are given out (as broken down in Xanathar's), assuming the same 5 person party size, that's about 20 permanent magic items, filled up by the end of 16th level.

So, if this was before then, it seems you had a DM who was much more generous with items then 5e gives - so that wouldn't be a problem with 5e. As a matter of fact, it sounds like Attunement was working as intended, preventing christmas trees of magic items even though the DM was far outside the parameters of 5e.

Actually I think you are both overlooking something @Bacon Bits is right about atonement being overly restrictive. Thst kind of 3 item thing works ok if the game is mostly built for one shots and very brief campaigns unlikely to get more than 3 items... if you are unlikely to get more than 3 magic items due to either short campaign or assumed no magic items the three attune limit becomes pointless.

I didn't notice in his post until you brought up the Christmas tree thing. His magic items were sword of awakening, ring of protection, and amulet of health. Rwo amulets and two rings. Body slots of the past had limits of ons per slot with two ring slots precisely to put barriers between a character with several items each having differing affinities that target different areas and a character stacking a bunch of stuff with the same affinity to significantly bump their character beyond the power level of those items themselves

With the slot limits and slot affiliates covered it gets into what an amulet of protection did and bonus types. When I went to look up what bonus types it had back in 3.5 to go into details I was surprised that page 21 of the 3.5 dmg mentions the ring of protection specifically in

Spoiler: behind the curtain:stacking bonuses

BEHIND THE CURTAIN: STACKING BONUSES
Keeping track of the different types of bonuses a character gets from
different sources may seem like a real bother. There are good reasons
to do this, however.
Balance: The main reason to keep track of what stacks and what
doesn’t stack is to keep total bonuses from getting out of hand. If a
character wears a belt of giant Strength, it’s unbalancing to allow the
cleric to cast bull’s strength on her as well and allow both bonuses to
add up. Likewise, a character with mage armor, magic plate armor, a
ring of protection, and a divine favor spell would be unbalanced if all his
bonuses were cumulative. Stacking restrictions keep the game within
manageable limits, while still allowing characters to benefit from
multiple magic items. For instance, note that some of the items from
the previous example—the magic plate armor, the ring, and the divine
favor spell, for example—could work together, because they provide
bonuses of different types.
Consistency and Logic: The system of bonus types provides a way to
make sense out of what can work together and what can’t. At some
point, when adding types of protection together, a reasonable player
realizes that some protections are just redundant. This system logically
portrays how it all makes sense together.
Encouraging Good Play: Categorizing bonuses by type allows play-
ers to put together suites of effects that do work in conjunction in a
consistent manner—encouraging smart play rather than pile-it-on play.

What an item of protection did changed too. It used to be a +1 to +5 deflection bonus, which was gigantic since +n armor & shields had an enhancement bonus allowing the of protection item to stack. The 5e item of protection by contrast gives +1 to ac and all saves. I was able to find a couple items & enhacements like the MiC githborn talisman & commander armor enhancement that added a +1 bonus to will saves but not one that added to all saves.... the 5e ring of protection might be something that needs to draw from the epic level handbook or some splatbook to craft, but it's certainly not going to be in the same price range as other rare 5e items like a +2 weapon or +1 armor would have been in the past when body slots & slot affinities were both in place.

All of that raises a question of 5e's design goals to crank magic items up so far while insisting that magic items are so optional that none of the system's math takes them being used into account. How the heck did wotc not foresee the problems created by cranking them up so igh & getting rid of so many safeguards they had?

 

[Kurotowa]

Actually I think you are both overlooking something @Bacon Bits is right about atonement being overly restrictive. Thst kind of 3 item thing works ok if the game is mostly built for one shots and very brief campaigns unlikely to get more than 3 items... if you are unlikely to get more than 3 magic items due to either short campaign or assumed no magic items the three attune limit becomes pointless.

I'd forward a slightly alternative take. Magic Item Attunement is a solid design element, they were just overly aggressive with tagging items to require it. Attunement should be reserved for major items you want to lock to a specific user or prevent too much stacking, not minor items like a Ring of Jumping. If an attunement requirement was a bit less common the cap would be a lot less oppressive.